How Many Gallons Per Foot?

[hawkins111]

electric heat

Sir,

How much is you electric bill in a winter month in NY? Do you also heat your domestic hot water with electricity?

Tom

[HayZee518]

Hawkins - what the utility charges up here per kwhr is high, but there was a blurb that they are giving a discount of 6% next year. most places here are listed as SC-1 non heat electric. you don't see many off peak metering here.

[Stayouttadabunker]

By the way, here in the northern part of New York State - we went down to a cool 3 degrees above zero at around midnight.
Electric windows start to stick on car doors...lol


And yes, I have the old gray PB poly 1980's "pre-pex" tubing in the floor slabs.
I still have no idea what the I.D. is though....couldn't find it anywhere.

[HayZee518]

look at the printing on the pipes - are the pipes light gray like pvc electrical tubing or a dark gray pipe. the dark gray can be threaded with pipe dies. the pipes can be schedule 40 or 80.

[Stayouttadabunker]

OKay
I went downstairs, removed a section of insulation, and took some pics.
Looks like the old SDR-11 stuff...uh...lotsa printing on them...lol...>>>


BOW '8' 3/4" ( CT8 ) SUPER-FLEX PB2110 SDR 11 100 PSI AT 180 Degrees [NSF PW] <FM> ASTM D3309

Click on any photo to enlarge if needed...>>>

[Redwood]

SDR 11 means that the outside diameter of the pipe is eleven times the thickness of the wall.

So since polybutylene is SDR-11 measure the OD then divide by 11 to get the thickness of the wall of the tubing...

Then take the od and subtract (2 times the wall thickness) to get the ID...

I'd love to say I remember the ID but the last time I used the stuff was in 1986... Oh well it wasn't important enough to remember...

Out of curiosity what do the fittings look like?
There was a class action on that stuff and some fittings were worse than others....
http://polybutylenelawsuit.com/

[Stayouttadabunker]

The polybutylene pipe reacted poorly with chlorinated water...
that's not a problem here.
However, major civil lawsuits in large populations with highly-chlorinated city water
brought production of that pipe material to the end...
The other thing was the crimps degrading and failing with brass fittings...
The pipes sprunk leaks anywhere from 7 to 15 years in those areas.

These pipes here are 25 years old and haven't leaked yet until
one sectional floor slab froze during a month long January power outage about 8 years ago.
End of that slab.
Up here in the northern tier of New York state, it's much more rural
and drilled well water is the norm - no chlorine.
It's pretty much the same deal in other rural areas of north america as well.
Well water won't hurt polybutylene and was common for ground-source heating systems.

There's not much difficulty finding the proper adaptive fittings between polybutylene piping-to-Pex, or poly-to-copper pipes up here, but I'm sure it's harder to find in areas where poly wasn't used.

[Redwood]

The other thing was the crimps degrading and failing with brass fittings...

Acetal fittings were another problem area...

[Stayouttadabunker]

Pipe comparison . . .
www(dot)acehardware.com/info/index.jsp?categoryId=1267591

Looks like the walls on copper pipe is 1/8"???

Maybe, but we're talking about polybutylene SDR-11 pipes from the mid-80's...

[HayZee518]

brass, yes, copper no. all they make is type L and type M copper tubing.

[Redwood]

I would think the wall would be about the same as brass/copper???

Well Polybutylene does have the same OD as copper as it is a CTS (Copper Tube Size) pipe...

So the OD is 7/8" or .875" for Types K, L, & M...
The wall thickness varies with the type with K being the thickest and M being the thinnest... K is used for underground service lines...

Figure your Polybutylene ID using the information in my earlier post...

[Stayouttadabunker]

Sorry, just giving all I can as far as information.

I would think the wall would be about the same as brass/copper???

I wish I had a piece to measure with a set of calipers but while the nominal names (for ex. 1/2", 3/4",1", etc.) of these pipes are alike the O.D. and I.D's are quite different.

If the O.D. of a piece of 3/4" copper pipe
and a piece of 3/4" polybutylene are the same O.D. -
I would offhand guess that the I.D. of the PB pipe would be smaller
and the walls thicker than copper?
The only way to know for sure is to get samples of these differing pipes,
measure them or get a specification sheet on them.

For some reason, I am having difficulty finding specs anywhere on the internet on polybutylene pipes.
I believe the because the companies stopped making them, documentation
about precise specifications on them is rather scarce.
Right now, we are just guessing...

[Redwood]

Read posts 22 & 32 and you'll have your answers...

[Redwood]

Does this help???

PVC Pipe Size Dimensions, Identification & Pressure Ratings 1/8" thru 12" and larger.

another site . . .
PVC and CPVC Pipes - Schedule 40 & 80

Another Site . . .
PVC Pipe Data

See also,
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pipe_(fluid_conveyance)

Nope! That has nothing to do with SDR-11 Polybutylene Tubing...

This does though...
Read posts 22 & 32 and you'll have your answers...

SDR 11 means that the outside diameter of the pipe is eleven times the thickness of the wall.

So since polybutylene is SDR-11 measure the OD then divide by 11 to get the thickness of the wall of the tubing...

Then take the od and subtract (2 times the wall thickness) to get the ID...

Well Polybutylene does have the same OD as copper as it is a CTS (Copper Tube Size) pipe...

So the OD is 7/8" or .875" for Types K, L, & M...
The wall thickness varies with the type with K being the thickest and M being the thinnest... K is used for underground service lines...

Figure your Polybutylene ID using the information in my earlier post...

[HayZee518]

Stay Outta the bunker - why are the tubing dimensions so critical that you need to know? Can you not just trust the trade size dimensions and go with that? It isn't a science to fill the slab manifold with water and glycol. just keep pouring it in until its filled. You don't know how the tubes are placed in the slab unless you have the engineering data of the guy that built the place and even with that, how do you know the contractor didn't cut corners in installing the mat?