Moisture problem - Extreme vapor barrier

[Joe_from_Minneapolis]

Hello:
I am looking for advice regarding a serious moisture problem. My hope is to get in touch with someone who has actually experienced my problem and implemented a good solution.
The problem I have is a large home in northern Minnesota that was build in the 1970s with a plastic vapor barrier in the ceiling. The has been a serious moisture problem in the building for many years that is most noticeably expressed by a large amount of ice forming on the windows. Over time this problem has developed to the point where water has leaked through the window sill and into the wall cavity. This, in turn, has promoted mold, rot and peeling paint.
It took a while but we finally determined that the root cause was a layer of plastic that was installed during the original construction between the two layers of 1/2" sheet rock that form the ceiling on the second floor. Note that there is regular vented attic space immediately above this ceiling.
We plan to replace all of the windows but we are not sure how to relieve the on-going moisture problem that is most evident during the cold winter months when ice forms on the windows and frost/mold forms on some of the exterior walls.
The approaches that we are considering are:
1) Empty each room and removed the first layer of sheet rock and plastic vapor barrier from the entire ceiling. Then install a new layer of sheet rock and finish with plaster and paint.
2) Empty each room. Drill 1/4" holes in the ceiling every 5 inches or so. Fill each hole with plaster. Spray a layer of spray-texture and paint on the entire ceiling (to hide the holes).
3) Install a Energy Recovery Ventilation (ERV) system. This system would include a dehumidifying capability.
Note that this home is heated with electric baseboard heat and so there is no existing forced-air system.
Please let me know if you have any advice regarding alternative approaches, real-life solutions to the same problem or other sources of information that might be helpful.
Thanks.

[mrcaptainbob]

Moisture/mold.....

It sounds more airtight than insulated. Especially the walls. What's the humidity in the winter? I would expect the walls would not ice up if well insulated. The windows should not, either. The last house we had had aluminum framed double pane windows. THe glass would fog on the room side, but the frames would get a healthy layer of ice. The doorwall frame had as much as 1.5"! For the doorwall, (the worst of the lot) I placed heat tape (water pipe type) along that side that iced. And that kept the ice down well enough so we were able to use the door wall. Not a fan of aluminum frames. The place we have now has wood frame double pane windows and there are NO problems. I'd check the humidity level first. Would also recommend verifying the sealing of the sashes to the frame. That much ice forming sounds like air intrusion. THe aire recovery sytem would be a great approach for freshening the air, as well as controlling the humidity level for the whole house. Although it would work more efficiently if used with a forced air sytem. There were some postings a while back (I think by Lazypup) that suggested using infrared film in a standard 35mm camera to photograph the outside areas of a house. THe film, when developed, would show which windows, doors, or other areas would be the air leaks by showing the hot spot heat losers.

[wayneferr]

Moisture Problem

Joe
I am in the window business and have been for 21 years. The problem you are facing is not uncommon when you have alumnium or steel frame windows. Most of them have single pane or a 1/4 to 3/8 thermopane. The bulk of the ice forms on the frames because the frames conduct the cold so well that when the frames are exposed to the room temperature in the home they condense any moisture in the air to a liqud which freezes and hence you have ice buildup. My best advice to you is not to tear down the drywall but to replace the windows with a wood or vinyl window with a high performance glass and your troubles should be over and you will save yourself money on your ultilities as well. Best of Luck to ya !!

[mrcaptainbob]

Aluminum window frames......

I solved MY window problem by MOVING! Yes, Waynferr, that's exactly right. That aluminum draws off the heat so quick, and because of the temperature delta, manages to draw any moisture right to it's surface. Mineappolis Joe didn't say what type of window frame is in his house. Would like to know that, as well as if the moisture's on the pan or frame. Getting rid of the vapor barrier is not a good idea in that house. Controlling the moisture content, and verifying the wall and ceiling insulation situation are the second and third things I'd do. THe first is to stop any possible air leaks.