prefabricated laminate countertops

[Tinkee]

I'm looking to redo countertops, Lowes has some prefabricated countertops that have a backsplash that comes up about 2-3 inches that I really like.

The problem is, part of my countertop isnt against a wall, and Im not sure how to handle the back part of the counter top that isnt against a wall. Does anyone make a section of countertop that doesnt have the backsplash on it?

Heres a link to the kind of countertop im talking about.

Shop BELANGER Fine Laminate Countertops 6' Travertine Laminate Countertop at Lowes.com

[pushkins]

You could cut off the back splash but then you would have to fabricate the end, glue new laminate (matching) and file it down and after all that it wouldn't look like it matched the other side.
Lowe's do offer a custom laminate service, they (their contractors) will come out measure and make a counter top to suit your needs, so will almost any local cabinet making shop. The laminate is readily available, so don't think you have to shop at Lowe's to get it.
It will cost a little more for the custom work but I think that might be your best option.

[Tinkee]

If im relaminating over old laminate counter top and the old laminate has some small gouges in it, do i need to fill them before placing the new laminate on top?

[Tinkee]

Also, on my old counter top there is a metal band that connects the laminate back splash and the laminate countertop to hide the seam. Any idea what thats called? Or how I could best transition from my laminate countertop to my laminate backsplash? (they make a 90 degree angle)

[Nestor]

Tinkee"

If your counter top doesn't have a wall behind it everywhere, then it's not a good idea to use the kind of prefab top you're thinking of. What would be a better idea is to strip the existing laminate off your existing 3/4 inch plywood, and glue the Travertine laminate down to that plywood. Expect to pay about $60 per sheet for this kind of laminate. Belanger don't make their own laminate. They typically buy it from Formica, so check the Formica sample display, and you should find your travertine laminate there. And, Lowes should be able to order a sheet or two for you.

Basically, the procedure is to simply pry up that old laminate. When you do that, some of the plywood will come up with the laminate.

Then remove the old contact cement that was holding the old laminate down with lacquer thinner. Provide plenty of ventilation when doing this work.

Next, you fill in those areas where there are gouges in the plywood using water putty and a putty knife.

To get the laminate to fit precisely, set the laminate over the counter top and mark the edges with masking tape. Turn the laminate over and use 2 inch wide masking tape to connect the pieces used to mark the underside of the top.

Put the laminate back on and clamp or weigh it down so that it doesn't move. This time use a pen to mark the outline of the counter top on the masking tape on the underside of the laminate.

Cut the laminate pattern out using a jig saw. The masking tape will help minimize the chipping of the laminate. You want to cut with the laminate upside down so the jig saw teeth cut on the upstroke of the saw.

Now, paint both the top of the plywood and the bottom of the laminate with contact cement. (I use the water based contact cement here, but I think the solvent based won't stick to wax paper either.)

Use strips of wax paper to cover the plywood. The wax paper won't stick to water based contact cement, and I don't think it'll stick to solvent based contact cement either.

Set the laminate right side up on the plywood with the wax paper strips sandwiched between them. Make sure the wax paper covers the whole plywood surface because you don't want the contact cement on the plywood to come into contact with the contact cement on the laminate anywhere. Make sure the laminate is properly positioned over the plywood.

Now, use a pair of clamps to clamp the laminate down at one end or along one edge, and raise the opposite edge to remove the strips of wax paper to about the middle of the laminate. Then press the laminate on that side down onto the plywood to bond the two together.

Now, transfer the clamps to the bonded side of the laminate, and raise the first side of the laminate up to remove the wax paper strips. Set that side down and press it down to bond the laminate to the plywood on that side.

Now, dress the rough edge of the laminate with a small (6 or 8 inch long is fine) fine file. When I say "file", I mean an ordinary steel file that you can buy in any hardware store. Also, buy a small steel bristle brush to clean the cuttings out from between the teeth of the file. What you do is essentially file the edge of the laminate down at an angle of 45 to 60 degrees.

Now, you can buy veneer edging for doing the edge of your plywood, like this:



but if you want to laminate that edge, you pretty well need to buy a laminate trimmer, an edging guide and a cone shaped bit, and learn how to use them.

My understanding is that the corner material you described that fits between the horizontal counter top laminate and the vertical backsplash laminate is no longer available. There's just no call for it anymore. You'll find that once you remove the old laminate down, there will be small nails holding that corner material down to the counter top. There will also probably be other edge aluminum strips nailed to your plaster walls. You'd be better off to simply set a row of ceramic tiles on the wall. But, don't set those tiles on the counter top directly. Set a thin spacer on the counter top and set the tiles on top of that spacer. Then, when the tile mastic has set up, slide the spacer out so that there's a gap between the tiles and the counter top. Now, stick 1/4 inch foam backer rod into that gap and once the laminate is installed, caulk over that foam backer rod to hide it ( use a latex caulk cuz it's not really that wet an area).

Also, you should be aware that there are two kinds of plastic laminate. The kind you buy for doing the work I'm describing is about 1/16 of an inch thick. The kind that's used to make prefab counter tops is called "post formed" laminate because it's formed into it's final shape after it leaves the factory. Post formed laminate has the same pattern as regular laminate, but the backing is very much thinner, and the laminate is only about 1/32 of an inch thick.

If you want to laminate over laminate or laminate over plywood, you want to get the thicker, regular laminate, not the post formed stuff.

Finally, I'd be reluctant to laminate over laminate. I've just never had good luck getting contact cement to stick to the top surface of laminate. I'd be concerned that you wouldn't get a very good bond holding your new laminate down to your old laminate using contact cement. I'm sure you could find an adhesive that would bond the two together, tho, but it wouldn't be contact cement. Maybe a construction adhesive or an epoxy would do it, but I think it's a better idea to just remove the old laminate and stick your new laminate down with contact cement.

[pushkins]

Replacing laminate is a 9 out of 10 in difficulty for a DIyer, especially in kitchen areas, so be prepared. This is assuming you can actually get all the old laminate off the existing counter tops, which will be guided on the quality of the adhesive that was originally used. We have cases where it pulls up pretty well in large pieces but we also have many many cases where it comes up in small very sharp pieces, in these cases removal of the ply is a much faster proposal.
Don't forget you will have to cut out the sink so you will need a drill bit to drill a starter hole and a "fine" jigsaw blade, laminate jigsaw blades are available for all brands of jigsaws.
That little corner between the counter and back splash as previously mentioned is no longer an stock item anywhere (might be some old stuff laying in the back of a warehouse), it's not there to do anything other than help keep water out of the joint. If your making your own laminated back splashes use silicon to hold the splash to the wall and run a bead of silicon at the splash counter top corner. Be sure to get a complete bead of silicon especially behind the sink and faucet area before reinstalling the faucet almost all water issues originate here and it's difficult to get in there once the faucet is installed.
The edging wood on a roll is not intended or designed for kitchen areas, it was designed for low traffic areas like shelving, entertainment units etc... If you do use it make sure you carefully apply a couple of coats of polyurethane on it and the edge between it and the laminate to help protect it from moisture.
You could use oak (or any other species) edge trim pre stained and sealed and nailed to the edges but your laminate top edge will have to be very straight.

Have you thought about tiling the counter top, I'm not a fan of it but many people like it, they make edge tiles that cover the corners, once these are set in place all you have to do is fill in the top section with cuts only at the back splash (which will be hidden) and around the sink. You could use 12"x12" granite tiles with the wood counter top trim mentioned above stained or painted, small grout lines 1/16" and a good quality grout. Just a thought.

[Tinkee]

update on countertops

So I finished the countertops! Thanks for all the helpful advice. I ended up pulling up the old laminate which wasnt as hard as i expected, took about an hour maybe. I measured and cut my new laminate (which was harder than I expected) I didnt really have a good surface. If I had to do it again or for first timers I'd suggest buying a large piece of foam to cut on or something thats solid enough to put the laminate on that you dont have to worry about cutting through. For the edging i was lucky enough to find some pre-cut 12 foot strips of edging that was the same design as ours (travertine) at a surplus warehouse for 8.99 so that made the edging really easy and saved time. I purchased a router and some bits and practiced before doing the trimming. Once the laminate work was done We Installed a new sink and then tiled over the old laminate backsplash. Turned out really well. Ill post some pictures of it whenever I have a few minutes. Definately a project that requires two people if its a first time project I think. My wife was an invaluable help and a great second set of hands. (also kept me calm when I was cussing because I could cut the laminate straight =p )

Again, thanks for your advice and ill throw up some pics soon of the finished product!

[pushkins]

Glad to hear it all worked out.

[HayZee518]

laminate

Nestor said to use waxed paper between the counter top and the new laminate. I never trusted this procedure as waxed paper or any paper tends to stick to cured contact cement. thin strips of luaun -plywood or round dowels work better and tend to support the laminate as you work with it. another thing start pressing the laminate from the center out, not from one end. Make sure the laminate is dead straight before you start making contact with the substrate. 3/8" overhang is permitted because the straight router bit will trim right to the substrate edge, then follow up with the 45 degree cutter.
I did all 21 feet of my counter space.

[Nestor]

Well, after having replaced 20 of the 21 laminate counter tops in my building, I've got some experience laminating and using contact cement too, and I can tell you without any question that you can use wax paper with LePage's Press-tite Green Contact Cement:

I've been told that wax paper works equally well with regular solvent based contact cement, but I don't have any experience using wax paper with regular contact cement so I can't say with certainty that it works as well.

Also, when you use wax paper, it's the wax that's coming in contact with the contact cement, not paper, and dried contact cement won't stick to the wax.

The problem with dowels or thin strips of plywood is that they hold the laminate off the surface of the substrate to be laminated, and you can move the laminate in the process of pushing it down into contact with the substrate. That's why you need some extra laminate all the way around to allow for some movement.

The advantage of using wax paper is that you can put the laminate on the countertop plywood to position it super accurately and then clamp it down on one side so that it doesn't move at all. That eliminates the need to have any excess laminate for trimming off later, and that in turn makes it possible for people who don't have a router or laminate trimmer to install laminate. They just have to trace the shape of the surface to be laminated on the underside of the laminate, cut along that line accurately with a jig saw (or whatever) and use wax paper to do the laminating. Then just clean up the edges with a file.

I've always installed prefab counter tops, but I've laminated the cutting boards and sink covers for those counter tops, and all of that laminating was done using wax paper and the contact cement shown above. And, it all worked exactly as I describe here. In my case I had both a laminate trimmer and a router so I typically had plenty of excess laminate all the way around, but my experience using wax paper tells me that I really didn't need that excess. So, if someone wants to laminate but doesn't have a laminate trimmer or router, they could still get good results using wax paper and a file.