Electrical Outlet Problems Galore

[mr hud]

Hello all,

First time post and probably not the last since I am in an electric bugridden house. There seems to be quite a few very informative people on here. hoping someone can take a crack at this.


First problem:
I plugged an iron into a standard residential 120v outlet. As the iron commenced to warm up , every electrical appliance in the house started cycling extremely fast. Unplugging the iron stopped the cycling/flickering of the lights. I measured the voltage and the outlet is only producing 95 volts. I took the panel off of my 150amp two pole house panel in the garage and measured the very bottom left 15amp breakers voltage it read 95v , the one above it reads 122v, the one above that 95v , 122v, 95v, 122v and so on. Is this NORMAL ? If I switch the bottomleft breaker off all of the lights in the house get brighter , flip it on and the lights dim noticably and stay that way. I tried flipflopping the bottomleft breaker's wires and now it is reading 117v, 122v, 117v, 122v, 117v. 117 is higher than 95 but this is not the fix I am looking for.

Something to take in accordance with this problem, an electrical outlet in the garage had a serious meltdown issue, the wires insulation is a powdery residue now. I will probably create a new thread with pics for that issue for all to see. So something in the house is definitely amiss.

Secondary problem due to first:
After the cycling problem with plugging in the iron happened the central AC will not power up at the evap blower area or the condensor area. I measured the thermostat and it is receiving little to no energy. I removed the transformer from inside the evaps electric heat area, which is wired for 240 primary side and 24v brn/red secondary side. I ohmed it out and it appears to be ok. Is there a small sealed contactor or something else that could have been damaged due to the cycling that I should check before buying a new trasformer ?


The AC needs to get running asap due to this TX heat, but I know the Electricy problem trumps all since it is the reason I am here.

Any help would be much appreciated. Thanks!

[mr hud]

I went home at lunch and snapped some shots so you can see what I am looking at, I resized them accordiingly due to forum rules , let me know if they are too small I can upload them again

I went ahead and measured each breaker with the furnace and ac switched off as shown and remarkably all measured 122 volts

Is the furnace/ac the problem due to a not so good installation maybe ?

I will do more testing later tonight with them on once I put the transformer back in the furnace/evap. Damn it is hot , I was sweating just standing in the kitchen.

Can I ask what the 3rd large wire is for that is running over to the nuetral side , is that the neutral return back to the pole ?

[HayZee518]

Ok, the panel you have is a CUTLER-HAMMER. C-H is the only manufacturer that makes beige breaker handles. The two large wires are the feeds from the meter socket, the third wire going to the neutral IS the neutral that is connected to the common center terminal in the meter socket. Judging from what I see, the entrance system is enclosed in pvc conduit back to the meter. If you have an underground service entrance, the infeed will be in pvc conduit, then triplex to the pole and encased in more pcv up the pole to the "crib line." An overhead entrance may terminate at a metal mast going up the side of the building to a weather head clamped to the mast and connected to a "SERVICE LATERAL." or may be just a cable - a triplex - overhead to the pole and crib line or directly to a transformer. The wires at the transformer are marked X1, X2, X3. X1 & X3 are your hot wires. X2 connects to the midpoint between the X1 and X3 windings, creating a neutral. This center leg should have a wire connected to a driven ground rod at the pole.
Now for your problem. A multimeter is good for measuring voltage - don't even bother using the resistance ranges, it'll confuse you even more. Invest in a good AMPROBE - clamp around ammeter. This way you can measure amperage draws on your circuits. If a lot of your lighting circuits are connected on the same bus of the panelboard, any motor that starts will dim your lights until the motor is up to speed. Another thing to consider is if the power company is performing "load shedding" during times of the day. They will reduce the voltage on your line side of the transformer circuit to all the homes on your feeder.

[HayZee518]

The line in the garage that melted. Remove the whole length of it and replace it. You not gonna buy extra benefits by leaving it there. You might even find a small ground path to the hot wire internally within the cable or between the cable and the clamp inside the box. Something just to note down.
With the panel cover off look carefully without touching the line wires and see if there is a kind of "grease" on the wires and the screws. If there is, ok, the electrician used an anti-oxidant, if not, you may be having oxidation problems at the terminals. These terminals will heat up and create a high resistance point that will reduce voltage and current coming in. At this point I would say call an electrician. He'll have to call the power company to ask permission to pull the meter and re-strip the wires at the panelbox and meter to apply the anti-oxidant.
Once that is done we're back to square one. Loose neutrals under wirenuts will cause problems. What I do is twist the wires in a clockwise rotation before applying the wirenuts. Lot of guys just twist the wirenuts on the bared conductors to save time, but they create a high resistance connection.

[HayZee518]

why are two double pole breakers off? I'm gonna hafta assume they are connected to the a/c inside unit and outside unit. Oh yeah at the outside condenser there should be a manual disconnect switch or breaker. Inside the control panel, measure the input to the control transformer and the output before and after the fuse. the transformer's terminals will be marked X1 and X2. The 240 will be connected to the H1 and H2 or 3 terminals.
keep in mind that any transformer's output varies with what's coming into the primary. if the primary voltage goes up or down, the secondary is gonna see the same up or down proportionally to the input.

[mr hud]

Wow , so much info Thanks for the knowledge! Thanks for the advice, I will look into getting an AMPROBE seeing as how I am into fixing things now or trying to at least. hmm "Load shedding. That seems unfair to paying customers. I will read up more on that. I have to switch new companies soon and will ask about that before I sign up. Ok wow so oxidation might be the source of all of this. I will inspect closely and advise when I get a chance tonight.

And yes those double poles were off seeing as how I had the transformer removed at the time for testing. Ac works now I am happy , but I really need all of these outlets operating correctly for fear of fire and what not.

Update:

So I got home from work yesterday , restested the transformer that I had removed, Seemed ok so I reattached it to the Ac Evap Furnace area where I had removed it and adjusted the thermostat. Voila it Works back to 79-80 degree weather inside...thankfully.

Ok back to the electrical problem. So all breakers are reading 122 now for some reason, nothing showing low voltage. Now I have two outlets one in each bathroom that are dead. This has happened before and they started working again for some reason. No voltage going to them whatsoever now yet all breakers are on and reading nominal. I went ahead and removed the outlet from the 1st bathroom and will leave the other bathroom alone for now. I attached a pic of the 1st bathroom. The 2nd bathroom is identical with 2 white/2black/ground. The other pic is the outlet from out in the garage that was having serious meltdown issues.

This house is rather small 2 bedroom/2bathroom/living-dining/small kithen/garage. I don't see how this wiring is so screwed up. So apparently both bathrooms outlets are connected somehow yet the light switch and exhaust fan are independent of that.

Can you suggest a book or website where I can learn more about how to troubleshoot and figure this type of problem out ? I Can't really call an electrician just yet but I might get my friend who worked as an electrican for a number of years involved.

[HayZee518]

THE PICTURE OF THE FIRST BOX YOU DEFINITELY HAVE PROBLEMS. SOMETHING DID BLOW UP IN THE BOX. THE NEUTRALS ARE SUPPOSED TO BE WHITE INSULATION, NOT BROWN THAT YOU HAVE. In the second picture use your meter and check each pair in the cable for 120 volts. You may have a hot set in that box and a downfeed to another circuit. Bathrooms required a gfci receptacle adjacent to a sink/ Hot feed goes to the top two screws and downstream circuit to the bottom set. when the gfci trips that downstream circuit will also trip. keep that in mind. Back to the first box - there must be a lot of moisture in that box because all that green **it is the earth ground wire disintegrating. the metal box is grounded by means of a clip to the side of the box or the bare is wrapped around a clamp screw and tightened.