GFCI FOR SPA

[BB]

i installed a spa that required a 30 amp 2 pole gfci and a 20 amp 2 pole gfci. only the 20 amp required the netural to be attached to it. the 30 amp gfci did not have a netural wire to be installed AND EVERYTHING WORKS FINE. COULD SOMEONE PLEASE EXPLAIN TO ME WHY THE 30 AMP 2 POLE GFCI WORKS WITHOUTA NETURAL.
PS IF I TAKE THE NETURAL FROM THE 20 AND PUT IT ON THE 30 BOTH 20 AND 30 TRIP?????????????????????????

BC

[Rewired]

By "neutral" you mean the neutral from the spa itself?
Anyway, with all these GFI breakers there is a neutral "pigtail" and I assume that on both the 20 and 30 amp breakers you have that pigtail is connected to the neutral buss of your panel, it must be for a GFI to work properly!
The way I see your tub running the way it does is the 2-pole 20 amp breaker must be for your pump (240v) and must also run the electronic controls(120V, therefore a neutral is needed). The 30 amp must be for the heater element only ( 240V no neutral needed).
With a GFI, they operate by monitoring the amount of current that flows both out to the load AND flows back from the load, and what goes out MUST equal what comes back. Weather lets say you have 10 amps flowing on one hot leg and 7 on the other, with 3 flowing in the neutral, as may be the case with your 20 amp breaker OR say 15 amps on each hot leg with no neutral even connected, as the case may be with your 30 amp breaker, [u]in both cases whats going out is coming back</u> and the GFI breakers see no "difference", so they will not trip!

Now, when you move your "neutral" over to the 30 amp breaker it is causing BOTH breakers to trip because:

1. The 20 amp breaker is seeing a current flowing out through one of the "hot" legs but not returning through the other or the neutral. It sees this as a ground fault and trips open.

2. The 30 amp breaker is seeing the current flowing in through the neutral but not flowing through either of the two "hot" legs. The GFI also sees this as a possible ground fault, even though it really isnt and trips open as well.

Hope this clears things up a bit for ya!

A.D

[irregularjoe]

My question is why your spa requires two seperate gfi's.
Most spas run on either 50 amp 220/110 or 20 amp 110.

quote:Originally posted by BB

i installed a spa that required a 30 amp 2 pole gfci and a 20 amp 2 pole gfci. only the 20 amp required the netural to be attached to it. the 30 amp gfci did not have a netural wire to be installed AND EVERYTHING WORKS FINE. COULD SOMEONE PLEASE EXPLAIN TO ME WHY THE 30 AMP 2 POLE GFCI WORKS WITHOUTA NETURAL.
PS IF I TAKE THE NETURAL FROM THE 20 AND PUT IT ON THE 30 BOTH 20 AND 30 TRIP?????????????????????????

BC

Did you ever see OHM'S mother in LAW?...... SHOCKING!

[Rewired]

Actually I saw that one time before on my former employer's hot tub. It seemed to work good that way only because if his motor got wet, it tripped the pump GFI and he knew the problem had to do with the motor or control circuits. If for some reason the heater element went to ground (happened more than once), it would trip the heater GFI but the pump kept running. A GOOD idea when its the dead of winter and you use your tub because MOVING WATER WONT FREEZE!! He found this out one cold Canadian winter as well !