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This is a part of the 'issue' of remodeling the first floor bath. (I'll never catch up to Troy!) Some of the floor joists need to be repaired/replaced, so that requires the unthreading of any electrical fed through them. Since it's within 15' of the panel I plan to pull out the existing wire and temporarily splice a 20' piece in so as to get it well out of the way of the work. Just my wife and I, and I'm usually the only one to go down there in the basement (as I'm not afraid of cobwebs!). So, since there's been several other electrical 'hiccups' in this ol' house, I thought I'd do a careful look-see at that panel wiring. It does look kind'a like a ratnest in there. It's a 200A, by the way. So I'm applying the first rule of electricians as was explained to me many years ago...work with one hand behind your back...and I'm using the rubber coated needlenose pliers to gently move stuff around so as to get a look at where 'this' or 'that' wire is going...and I did find what I expected...the insulation carved away in divots in places that are several inches from the end. You can always tell who did the install by the way the jacket is nipped. Yep, the good old razor knife. What every pro uses, I'm sure! Annnd, the first wire I remove I trace back to a point about 25 ft back and find that that 14G wire ends in a ball of black tape along with two other wires! Well, those two other wires were actually one 12G with the insulation stripped back (with a razor knife!) and that neat 14G wire was wrapped around it! On the good side, they did maintain black to black and white to white! Pitiful!!!
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Sounds like the typical handyman wiring job you have there. If you have a good flashlight that can sit on top of a ladder or one of those lights attached to a baseball cap, you can open the main breaker and then use both hands to trace out this mess you've been left with.
I found lots of "flying splices" in my basement too, hard to believe since a metal J-box sure wouldn't break the bank to install. Anyhow, those nips in the jacket are better to repair by installing a piece of heat shrink tubing over them instead of trying to mend them with electrical tape. It'll hug the wire better and not get brittle over time. It comes in varying diameters, just install the minimum size that'll fit over the existing insulation and it'll shrink down for a good fit. It's sold at most hardware stores.
While you're in there make sure that each neutral wire is installed in it's own slot on the neutral/ground bar. You don't want 2 neutal wires in any one slot. Ground wires can usually be doubled up in a slot, but only if they're of the same gauge. If you need more slots you can install an additional bar.
It's ok to mix the 14 and 12 gauge wires together, but make sure that the breaker that protects a circuit like this is 15 amps and not a 20. Also make sure that any circuit that has mixed wire gauge on it has the 14 gauge wire installed at the breaker so anyone in the future doesn't assume it's a 20 amp circuit and mistakingly installs a 20 amp breaker.
There are specific codes you'll need to abide by when rewiring the bathroom, a 20 amp dedicated circuit is required and the receptacles need to be GFCI protected. Sounds like you really have your work cut out for you, luckly you've found the hidden dangers you didn't know you had. -
I'll be replacing much of the wire in that panel eventually. It's such a mess. It seems as if there's more ground wires on that bus than what are coming in through the holes. I did find a couple up there that were snipped and left. I'm really considering shutting the main and just taking all the wires out at once, and then splicing the jumpers that are needed and at the same time straighten out the mess. GFCI's are definately in the future for that bathroom, as they will be in the upstairs as well. I've been finding a few outlets that have a ground wire connected, but find there really is no ground! It was an add on to another branch that was only a two wire. Neat little tricks in this ol' house! Sure does keep me on my toes. Thanks for the help, KactusKid.Comment
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I need to apologize.....I've read from time to time (and heard about) how much an electrician charges for various jobs. Well, most certainly "you guys are charging wayyyy more than necessary!"....well, I have some new found appreciation for your trade. Not only because of what you guys have taught on this forum,( an awful lot of knowledge needed for this job!), but also for what you must run into in the course of business. What I'm experiencing with this panel on this project would justify dang near any price you guys would charge! And you'd deserve that and more!! PITIFUL!!!!! How do you manage maintaining sanity when working on existing panels???? Hat's off to you!Comment
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Lots of coffee and doughnuts!Comment
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