A Few Questions, Romex, Fish Tape

[DKAudio]

I am putting new lighting in the basement. I will have 8 recessed cans so if I used 100W incandescents that will equal about 6.7A. If I go right from the breaker box, what size romex should I use? 20A breaker? Does anyone know where I can get recessed cans cheap? I'll probably get 4" and want nickel trim.

Also, I am going to get fish tape soon, is there any reason to spend the extra money on the nylon other than it being non conductive?

Thanks

[kactuskid]

You'll want to use 12 gauge wire for a 20 amp circuit which can be loaded up to 2400 watts of power. But to really help you out a bit more could you let us know the size of the room that you're wanting this lighting in and what the ceiling material is?

If it's already drywalled then you'll want to install remodel type recessed cans and if there insulation in the ceiling then you'll also want these cans to be IC rated. The cheapest fixture is not necessarily what you should want to use. Halo brand recessed cans are an excellent quality fixture and can be bought for a reasonable price at Home Depot.

Be aware that the size of bulb used in these fixtures is limited by the trim piece used. The rating for the bulb will be marked on the label inside the can and also on the trim piece selected. I'd suggest using 65 watt bulbs in the 6" cans and I know most the 4" cans are limited to 50 watts each.

This link will explain the different types of lighting and how they should be used.
http://www.sunlighting.net/info/general_recessed.htm

Since a basement is a dark place and in need of good lighting I would suggest you use the following link to make sure you're installing adequate lighting.
http://www.forteelectric.com/Howtolayoutcans.html

You may want to consider installing 6" recessed cans for your general lighting purposes and installing the smaller 4" cans for accent or task lighting.

I used a combination of General down lighting,(using 65 watt bulbs which are spaced about 4 feet apart), Task lighting (track lighting for over a bar area) and Accent lighting (wall washers to highlight a wall area and fireplace mantel and sconces on the walls)


You should also consider zoning these lights rather than controlling them all from a single switch. This way you only need to light the portion of the basement that you're using and not the entire area. Try to use dimmers on all the lighting and make sure the lighting you use doesn't exceed the wattage rating for the dimmers (which are normally 600 watt max, down rated if more than one dimmer is installed in the same electrical box).

If the ceiling is drwalled then the link below will help you in the details of how to install remodeled type cans
http://www.rd.com/content/openConten...ontentId=17776

If the ceiling is a drop ceiling then you should use new work cans and mount them in the ceiling panels as shown in the link below
http://www.armstrong.com/resclgam/na...icle18424.html

I use the metal fish tapes and have had no problems. There are times though when a more solid fish is needed and then the fiberglass rods come in really handy though you should have no problem using the metal tape for installing lighting.

[DKAudio]

Thanks for all the information. I just tore down the old ceiling (it was hanging type). I am going to sheetrock it though. I thought I would sheetrock first and then get remodle type, it seemed easier than trying to cut the hole in the exact right spot while the sheetrock is on the floor. I would think that would be pretty hard. I am not sure if I am going to use incandescents with dimmers or just get CFLs with no dimmers.

There are two rooms that I want to do this with, one is around 8.5' X 11' and the other is 8.5' X 22 (these are estimations) There is no insulation between the floor joists.

Thanks

[kactuskid]

I'd really suggest you not install sheetrock on the ceiling, a basement ceiling needs to allow for access in case you need to get at a pipe or anything else up there. Drop ceilings are really alot better and there are some nice looking panels. I prefer the 2'x2' size that have the revealed edges, they look almost 3D cause they drop down below the grid just a bit. I've had folks tell me that mine looks BETTER than drywall.

When I did my basement all the recessed lighting fell within the grids, but not without extensive planning. First you need to determine what size ceiling panels you will be using (2x2 or 2x4). Next step would be to determine where you will need not only general lighting but any task or accent lighting, figuring out your furniture locations will help you here. (Like where you will be sitting to read, watch tv, play any games (pool, darts). These are the area’s you will need special lighting.
Figure out your ceiling grids by drawing out your room dimensions on a sheet of graph paper and determine how far from the walls out you will start a full panel. Then transfer these lines to the floor of your basement, this way you will be able to see where the grid lines fall. Now you will be able to see which ceiling joist to install your down lighting in and where in the joist, so to avoid a grid. Tape some duct tape across the cavity space where you want the lights. Try to install the general lighting uniformely. You will have to measure and re measure to insure you fall in an open space for the ceiling tiles.
You may also at this time want to run phone, cable, and speaker wires, which should be kept at least 1-2 feet away from the electrical cable runs. Crossing perpendicularly is fine, but no parrellel runs.

[DKAudio]

There is essentially only one water pipe (for the front outside). It has a spicket(sp?) and I will leave an access panel for that. Other than that there is two heating/cooling ducts (one in each room) and conduit. I am going to get rid of all the conduit and put in romex so I will drill holes through the floor joists for that. Therefore, all I would need access to is the spicket. The reason I want to put up drywall is to get the extra 3-4". The ceiling is only 83" from floor to the joists. With the old panelling it was about 80 max. I am 6'2" so that is 74", I want the most height I can get. What do you think?

[kactuskid]

Well, I had a similar problem with a low ceiling height. What I installed is a product called Ceiling Max. This is basically a suspended ceiling that attaches directly to the joist so zero loss of headroom. It's a bit more expensive than your standard suspended ceilings but I found it was worth the extra cash to maintain accessibility. It can be found at Home Depot and you'll need a helper to install it easier. I then installed the Armstrong 2x2' Brighton model tiles. Here's a link that'll tell you all about it
http://www.acpideas.com/index.cfm?li...ar=00005.00013

Just my opinion, but this was way better than installing drywall cause I could cut the holes easier and not have to do any upside down mudding and sanding

Here's a couple of pics to show you what it can look like:

[DKAudio]

hmm, that does look nice. Could you give a ballpark range on about how much I would pay for my rooms. There is also a bathroom that I would like to do. It is not that big though. I assume you got new construction type recessed cans since you could just pop out the tile? Thanks

[kactuskid]

Yes, the cans are new construction type and most are the 6" size ones. I can't remember how much the ceiling stuff was, install was around 6 years ago and I'm sure prices are different now anyways. Just know that this type of system doesn't allow for just an easy one tile pop-out like a conventional system does. If a tile 4 tiles in from the wall needs to be removed then all 4 tiles would be removed. It's not a system that you constantly want to access above but it does allow for it if necessary.

In your situation with no piping above your ceiling that could leak you may be ok to just drywall and have an access port for your spigot. I had a spigot iso valve that I needed to access and it became a pain to take down a tile constantly to do so. I eventually moved the iso valve to an unfinished side of the basement so not to worry about it.

If you do drywall, your idea of installing remodel cans may be your best way to go to make sure the holes are exact. Since the recomendation for ceiling drywall is 5/8" drywall due to the sag factor be aware that there is special ceiling drywall that's 1/2" that you can install instead of the 5/8". It's made for ceilings and stronger than regular 1/2". Would be alot easier to install than the hevier 5/8".

And I thought I'd provide one more link for you on recessed cans installation that might help with a few more details if needed.
http://18004654533.com/Howto/Install...edLighting.asp

[DKAudio]

Thank you so much for all your help. My girlfriends Dad works for a lumber co. He can get damaged (just the ends) 12X4s for a couple bucks a sheet. I doubt they have that special 1/2" that you were talking about. Can you get that at Home Depot? Do you remember the cost? I have never mudded and taped on ceilings before. I have only taped and mudded once actually (I am only 21 and did it helping my Dad). We don't want to put any texture on the ceiling, just have it smooth. I am a little worried about it but I think I'll be fine.

What kind of trim would you recommend? Fish eye, baffle, trim, or reflective?

12AWG should be fine then?

Finally, thanks for spelling spigot...now I know how to spell it

[pushkins]

Just gonna toss in my two cents worth to this post.

If your going to install drywall put the can lights in first, it is much easier than trying to fish wires in rafter spaces.
Install the can lights where they need to be, when your installing the drywall measure to the center of a can light and transpose that measurement to the drywall and put a mark (doesn't have to be exact) install the drywall but
DO NOT drive the drywall screws all the way in around the light fitting just put them in enough to help hold the drywall up (suggest hiring a panel lift from Home Depot it will save you heaps of time and trouble). when you have the screws all in get a roto zip and a drywall bit and using your general mark for the light start a small hole until you can see or feel the can light, then using the roto zip proceed to cut around the can light holding the zoto zip against the outside edge of the can light as a guide. You will notice that the drywall sheet will pull up into it's correct postition as your cutting the hole, when your done, drive in the remaining drywall screws

DONE....neat and easy !!!!!!! Same for outlet boxes and switches.

[DKAudio]

hmm, that is a good idea. I have a Dremel, I just don't want to scratch up the can. I think I will get Halo as I have heard good things about them. I found this, great price...


My Home Depot links didn't work. If you go to their site I am thinking about the Halo 426H for trim (most of the trims are for R30 or R40 bulbs) and the Halor H7T for the can. The trim is a little more than I would want to spend but if it will work good...I could put CFLs in those too, right? I think I want to do dimming with incandescents in the main room and CFLs in the exercise room. What do you think?


Thanks

[pushkins]

If you get a drywall bit for your dremmel then you won't scratch the can light, they have a smooth tip to act as a guide. Besides the can surround will get covered by the trim kit even if you do scratch it by mistake.

[DKAudio]

I like the Halo 401P but it says R40. Could I use type A incandescents or CFLs with that? At home depot they are only $6 each and then the H7T is $9. Thanks

[pushkins]

Yes you should be able to use them in that light. Check the specs at home depot they have the full line of what you can and cannot use in Halo fitting.

[kactuskid]

I have never mudded and taped on ceilings before. I have only taped and mudded once actually (I am only 21 and did it helping my Dad). We don't want to put any texture on the ceiling, just have it smooth.

Well, below are some links that may help you out in the drywall department.
http://www.olcsh.org/jarek/woodworki...ng_drywall.htm
http://drywallinfo.com/

Recessed lighting cans do not really work well with CFL's. An incandenscent recessed bulb should be a spot light which directs the lighting downwards. There is a spot CFL on the market, though can't say how well it works. Using just a regular CFL or incandescent will not direct the beam downwards resulting in most of the light being lost inside the can.

Eyeball trims are for directing lighting to specific areas, like onto a wall to highlight a painting or for specific task lighting.