BAD GROUND? Being shocked by washer.

[bigj8550]

I usally can figure out things like this, but this one has got me stumped. In my home our washer has current running through it. Before you laugh and say duh thats how it works let me explain. When my wife goes to unload the washer it shocks her. She feels the tingle of 110v and that is when she stops. So the first thing I did was check for good ground connection. I was loosely connected to the cold water pipe and when I moved it sparks flowed. Ok so I then tighten the ground. NO change. Then I moved it to the juntion box for the outlet that serves the washer. No Change. In fact I noticed that when I place the ground there I felt the 110v tingle again. So then I unplugged the washer completly. Guess what that tingle is till on the outlet and the conduit leading all the way to the main breaker box. We have lived in this house for about 5 years and nothing has changed on that circuit that I can think of. So I am baffled!?!?!?! Any thoughts on why this could be happening? BTW there are several other outlets that are on this circuit. I know for a fact not only is the washer on this circuit but the outlets that feed the refierator, and microwave, and master bedroom with computer,printer,speakers,cordless phone,alarmclocks X2, and adding machine. And the house was build in 1910 and has been updated about 7 years ago to 100 amp with breakers. Help I am Stumped

[GaryS]

I had a similar situation and discovered that the ground rod was not making a good earth ground. I drove it in a few more inches and tightened the clamp. Problem resolved.

[bigj8550]

UPDATE
Got home from work today the wife told me all kinds of crazy stuff was happening. The washer started to work then just shut off and would not restart. Then the computer froze on her and would not do anything but did not power down. (see above all on same circuit) So ran a completely new ground wire from the washer to the cold water pipe. 14 gauge automoitve wire with ring ends for the conenctions. I now have a GOOD ground for the washer. But now it seems that the outlet that feeds the washer is dead. Could That be my issue the whole time a bad outlet????? . Gary thanks for the reply. As far as I can see I don't have a grounding rod It looks like it is all to the cold water pipes that then go to city service. Maybe I should add an additonal grounding rod??? What do you all think??

[geniere]

A ground rod has nothing to do with your "shocking situation" or anyone elses! A ground rod exists to protect your home's electrical system and connected devices from high voltage surges (lightning strikes).

You can only get a shock by touching two points having different voltage potentials. You can eliminate the diferent potentials by bonding the two points together with a wire. The NEC only allows this to be done at the electrical service entrance (main breaker panel) or at a sub panel. If done differently you may solve the particular problem but create a more hazardous situation.

Do it properly, do it to the code.

The code at one time allowed a washer's metal frame to be connected to the grounding buss by using the neutral conductor. If your washer's power receptacle has three slots (hot1, hot2, and neutral) you are wired to the old code (no green or bare grounding wire). You shoud check the integrity of the neutral (white) wire's connection to the washer's frame, the line cord, the receptacle and at the neutral ground buss.

If you have a four slot receptacle you probably have a grounding conductor. Check the ground wires integrity in similar manner as above.

If you add a grounding conductor per the NEC and change outlet and plug, remember to sever the neutral to ground connection in the washer if it exists.

[bigj8550]

I am not explaining myself very well. This just started happening after living in the house for 5 years. Never did it before. So something has changed or gone bad, and I have not changed anything on this circuit. I started at the ground because it looked loose and when you touched it sparks flew. My primary job is in the automotive field so I am used to working with dc not ac. I have seen bad grounds cause some very weird stuff in autos. As for a grounding rod the whole house is grounded to the power pole that feeds power and ground to at least six houses in my neighborhood that I can see. The washer that has a grounding lug on the back is now securely grounded to the cold water pipes. So now the outlet is dead it shows voltage across the poles but no amperage. Could a bad outlet cause the issues that I have described.

[kactuskid]

If you have voltage but no amperage then this is a sign of an open neutral on this circuit. And the shock is because your body is acting as the ground when touching the machine.

You need to open the breaker for this circuit and then open up the receptacle and make sure that all connections are tight. If any of the wires are stuck in the little holes in the back of the receptacle then remove them and wrap them around the screws on the sides. These backstabbed holes are the cause of lots of loose connections.

Since this house was built in 1910 then you may even have knob and tube wiring feeding this receptacle. Is this a 3 prong receptacle with no ground wire run to it besides the one you just connected. Are you using one of those 3 prong adapters on the washers cord? If it is then you should really run a new 12-2/g cable so you can ensure an adequate ground, or the ground wire must be run back to the main panel and not just secured to a nearby water pipe, this is against code.

You need to find the problem and not just ground the machine to a water pipe as the cure. You definatly have a loose wire somewhere, at the receptacle or at the panel that you need to find.

[geniere]

Originally Posted by bigj8550

I am not explaining myself very well…The washer that has a grounding lug on the back is now securely grounded to the cold water pipes… So now the outlet is dead it shows voltage across the poles but no amperage… Could a bad outlet cause the issues that I have described…

I am not explaining myself very well either. You should remove any electrical connection between the water pipes and the washing machine except the connection at the breaker panel. This can be very hazardous in some situations. The plumbing system should be bonded to the electrical system ground, but do it at the breaker panel. The grounding wires never carry current except if there is a fault. The grounding wire is NOT your problem. Do not confuse the neutral wire (groundED conductor- white wire) with the EGC (equipment groundING conductor – bare or green). The neutral is intended to carry current the EGC is not.

Please identify your receptacle type (3 or 4 prongs), how you measure the voltages (from what point to what point?), the type of meter you are using (digital/ analog?), and the actual readings.

[bigj8550]

Ok the outlet is a dual three prong outlet rated at 15amp it is older but not 1910. It was added some time after if I were to guess I would say about late 60's early 70's. there are a total of six screws on the receptacle for wires. Two on one side for hot. Two on the other side for neutral. and one more per side toward the top for ground wires for the third prong. I am pretty sure the third screw toward the top of the receptacle is for ground because it is green. There is a ground wire connected to the metal box. I think the confusion I have created with these posts is. The ground wire I am speaking of is the ground wire that connects to the back of the washer. You know the spot on the washer that most people don't hook up!! But I do. I tried to connect it to the junction box cover that houses my wiring, but that did not seem to work. Every other receptacle I have checked are grounded to the junction box the same way don't have any problems with those. I think it is a bad receptacle! Is that possible???????????? Now that the recepticle is dead I have no more shocking but also no more power I am going to replace it tonight unless someone else says hey you are way off base man.
BTW I did check no wires other than the ground wire touches the metal box. Oh ya I used a digtal meter I check across the screws voltage was 122.5 volts amprage was check with a digtal ampmeter in line amperage was .0012 that is nothing man and that is on a fused 10 amp max scale and that was with the washer pluged it and on.

[geniere]

Somehow I mistakenly assumed we were talking about a 240vac appliance, I see now that it is a 120vac device. The Kactuskid has probably nailed down your problem, to be a poor connection in the neutral conductor. Unfortunately it may not be the washer’s outlet where the connection has gone bad; it could be in any of the duplex receptacles on that particular circuit. If you can determine which is the last working outlet closest to the breaker panel, that is probably the one causing the problem.

[bigj8550]

Thanks for the reply the recepctial closes to the box is the one for the washer. I did not find any loose connections or anything small like that. I am now tracing the rest of the circuit looking for any other loose connections before I replace the outlet. Just trying to be through. My problem with tracing the circute is movine large items to check for connections. But as soon as i figure it out i will post it.

[bigj8550]

Problem Solved

kactuskid you were so close to dead on they should call you dead eye. There was no "loose conection" but there was excessive wire on the receptical. There was back holes for the wiring but the wires were wraped around the side screws. The problem was this receptical must have been robbed from another source instead of bought new. Because there was two pieces of cut wire in the back holes while the side screws contained the wires for power feed. Some how that receptical must have moved a fraction of an inch causing the ground out. I went ahead and replaced it with a new heavy duty receptical. And everything is honkey dory now. That was just weird because when I looked at the receptical I did not see the very short wire poking out the back. I only found them when they fell out of the back holes when pulling the wires off of the screws. Thank for all the help I will try to explain things better next time.

[kactuskid]

Glad to hear you found the problem. Yeah, those backstabbed holes are bad news any way you look at it. Do yourself a favor and wrap a couple of layers of electrcial tape around the sides of the receptacle. Anytime you have a receptacle in a small metal box you risk the receptacle moving and shorting out on the sides of the box.

Congrats and have a great weekend, and a safe one at that.