what size wire?

[acostabj]

i am wiring a detached garage and i want to run electricity from a double pole 60 amp breaker that is already installed on my main service panel which is a 150 amp.
the garage is about 80 feet from the home breaker box and i want to know what size wire i should use from this breaker to my garage. i only want to install about 4, 110v outlets and switches for flourescent lighting and i also want to power a miller 200 tig welder which runs off of 220v.
in addition to that i want to install a small window unit ac as well. i will be putting a breaker panel at the garage but i want to know what size wire i should go with to be adequate for this load.?

[HayZee518]

get me the amps and duty cycle off the welder, the amps of the a/c. general lighting is watts per square foot - (3) and outlets are rated at 180 va per outlet ( 1.5 amp)

[HayZee518]

take a look at the following site. it has boxes for you to fill in for figuring out wire size and conduits given the variables. by code the voltage drop cannot be more than 3% per one hundred foot run. I plugged in some values for your load i.e. length of run, voltage, type of conductor etc. the figure I came up with is or seems funny - 4 kcmil. kcmil means thousand circular mils which is the size cable. Voltage Drop Calculator

[HayZee518]

I don't want to bore you with a lot of theory but what you want and what you get boils down to electrical theory. The voltage is the "push" and amps is what does the work in a circuit. typically a 60 amp load is fed with a #6 wire which is good for 65 amps. a 3% voltage drop on a 240 volt line is 7.2 volts. 240 minus 7.2 equals 232.8 volts at the end load. so what happens is that as the voltage goes down, the amperage goes up. in this case a #6 would be too small for the increase in amps so what we must do is increase the size of the conductor. the end loading of 60 amps might be say, 100 once we get the voltage drop less than 3%. confusing yes, but the numbers do not lie. a #4 might do the job. I was on a job where the end loading was 20 amps. the total run was about 150 feet. the cable size was a #2 copper.

[acostabj]

im getting some info together

i am doing some research on the amerage. duty cycles and other data together so i can post all of the needed info on here. i found the welder output specs which is 150amps at a 40%duty cycle but i am still trying to find out the exact input power specs. the window ac unit is a 220v medium sized unit but i will get the amerage and power ratings of everything and post all of that on here to see if this can help to answer my questions. a little info about the welder is that its a miller 200 syncrowave tig welder with a 110v power outlet on it. the outlets in the garage will be used for just small power tools like drills and such but nothing that should really draw a whole lot of juice.
anyway as soon as i get all the rest of the specs together i will post that here to see if it helps. thanks for that great link too with the calculator as it will be very helpful in my quest here.
thanks for the replies its much appreciated

[acostabj]

plan B?

i hate to change things in the middle of a plan here but i beleive this may be a better idea but im not sure.
after looking at my electrical services on the house a little further, i realized that i may have a different way of powering up things in the garage but it still poses some questions that im not sure about. i thought about the panel box that i use for my swimming pool and hot tub and i plan on doing away with the hot tub anyhow so im thinking that i may be able to use that breaker to power the welding machine only and still use the double pole 60amp breaker on the main house panel for just the lighting and maybe the window unit ac.
the panel box that is used for the pool, hot tub, pool lights, polaris pool cleaning pump and another 110 outlet is very near my garage so im considering using the hot tub breaker to run the welder. the hot tub is run off of a 50 amp breaker and the polaris pool pump is on a 15 amp breaker and i plan on doing away with the polaris pool pump and the hot tub anyhow. this breaker is fed from a 100 amp breaker from my main panel box on the house which is a 150 amp main service.
i would like to still use the 60 amp double pole breaker on the main house panel box for my garage lighthing and window unit ac and use the old hot tub breaker for the welder if posssible. i was thinking that since im eliminating another 15 amp breaker(polaris pump) that i may be able to switch the 50 amp hot tub breaker to a 60 amp and use it solely for the welding machine. this box is only about 25 feet from my garage so running the wire underground in conduit would be easy and not too expensive since i wont need too much wire length. also i have no need to run the swimming pool and welding machine at the same time and the welding is pretty limited so that shouldnt pose any problem. the only other breakers in the box for the swimming pool are just the one for the pool pump which is a 15 amp and a 20 for a 110 outlet and another 20 for the pool lite.
does anyone see any possible hazards or problems with this method and also would a 6/3 wire coming from my main home panel be ok to use for the lighting and window ac? that run is about 80 feet.
any help and thoughts are much appreciated. thanks

[HayZee518]

I done some more figuring out and for an 80 foot run - a #6 will do nicely on a 60 amp breaker. I'll go to the miller site and see if I can find your welder and specs.
OK I found out that unit draws 54 amps @ 208-230 volts. The 200 and 200 runner are basically the same just the runner takes low boy gas bottles.

[acostabj]

thanks

so would it be safe to say that since the welder takes 54 amps at 208-230 volts, i be ok using the 60 amp breaker solely for the welder or is that too much amperage for a 60? also thanks for the input about the #6/3 wire too. i thought that it might be ok for just lighting like i mentioned but i wasnt sure and i feel much better now hearing it from a pro so thanks for that too and thanks very much for all of the research and feedback as well. its very much appreciated.

[HayZee518]

yes the 60 would protect the welder. 40% duty cycle isn't much but after you establish the arc with the high frequency, the working volts drop to about 26 volts. your amps is variable with the foot tredle. the rest should take care of itself.