K&T to Romex

[HayZee518]

as long as ALL the boxes and receptacles are grounded. not just the first and last in a run. if you have the first box fed with the knob n tube, then you'd ground out this box and its outlet. every box downstream from this first box should be grounded also.

[jtfoxman]

Yeah just the first box is the knob & tube every box after that is fed with 12\2 romex. So all i need to do is run a ground from the outlet that is fed with K&T to an outlet that has an actual ground and I'm good, and all is up to code. This way I do not have to pull new wire or change to GFCI's, I'd much rather have a real ground since one of the outlets is in my daughters room. My daughter and it being up to code are my biggest concerns.
Do they manufacture just ground wire? Can I just run the ground wire in that plastic electrial conduit that you place on the wall low to the ground that you put the wire in and snap a cover on it? I believe they call it raceway.

Thank you for all your help HayZee, I really appreciate it. You are a huge asset to this site.

[HayZee518]

that raceway you are refering to is called WIREMOLD. The old stuff you used to need straight clips to hold it on the wall. The newer stuff also made by wiremold has a sticky adhesive to hold it on the wall. Use #12 stranded green jacketted wire. I don't think you are gonna find anything smaller than #8 solid or stranded that is bare. Something else I thought I'd bring up is since 1996 they came out with a new breaker for construction for bedrooms. the breaker is called an ARC-FAULT breaker. Say you are putting up a picture on a wall and you drove a nail along side of a stud that had romex stapled to one side and the nail or screw went through the wire. It may have not penetrated the hot and ground fully to trip the breaker but did create a high resistance that over time would heat up. The arc-fault breaker senses this and trips out so you know you had a problem. Take a look in your browser that explains it.

[jtfoxman]

I was just searching around on another message board and I read that I can not run a single ground wire from 1 receptacle on a circuit to another receptacle on a different circuit to complete the ground. I thought I could or is this other poster incorrect. They posted that the NEC will not allow this. I need to run all new wire or replace with GFCI's. The poster was in the same delemna as i am with K&T and romex and wanted to ground the romex part of the circuit and they told him he needed to run all new wire. Now I'm back at square 1, I guess if this other post was correct.
Any feedback?

[HayZee518]

I suppose the intent was that a single conductor used for equipment grounding purposes cannot be run alone to a receptacle. it must be run along with the branch circuit conductors as in an approved cable assembly. check with your inspector on this one. I agree with you, knob and tube was the approved method fifty years ago, but I have yet to see it not being approved as many dwellings still use it. the code comes right out and says stuff about aluminum cable, but it doesn't ban knob n tube.

[jtfoxman]

So what your saying is that I should replace these outlets with GFCI outlets since I can not run a seperate ground. Do I have to use them AFI outlets since they are in a bedroom. Is it still safe to run an A|C off of one of the outlets. I have been for years and never realized it had no ground. I can not at the moment run a new circuit with new wire.

[HayZee518]

wherever you NOW have a two wire receptacle, replace with a gfci. as far as the arc fault interrupter, this is a breaker NOT a receptacle. Use the arc fault in NEW WIRING in a bedroom NOT existing wiring.

[jtfoxman]

What do i do with the ground wires that are there but serve no purpose since it's romex run off of K&T. Do I put them together and attach to the box and to the outlet or just the box or not at all?

[HayZee518]

since there is NO GROUND to connect to, just leave them. install gfci receptacles into THOSE boxes. the gfci will still work because its measuring the imbalance between the hot and neutral.

[jtfoxman]

First I'm going to pull up a few boards in my attic and see where the bedroom wire connects onto this K&T or where the good wire w\ground from the circuit breaker connects to the K&T and loses the ground. The attic is my most likely source and I may get lucky and find this connection then i could rip out what little K&T I have in th attic and install romex. I will only have to install a junction box where the wire and the old K&t met to accomadate the new romex in case there isn't one there. If not I wouldn't know where to look for the connection and I'll go ahead and install the GFCI's and have an electrician take a look some day down the road. If i do get lucky do I need to leave access to this j-box and to the j-box where the bedroom jumps off of it?
You have been a huge help HayZee and this should be my last post on this subject.

[HayZee518]

The knob and tube you will find is installed in between a ceiling joist space on porcelain knobs - hot on one joist and the neutral on the other. where they go through the wood they use porcelain tubes. when there is a tap off the main run the wires are just tapped into the main run, wrapped and sometimes soldered to the "bus" then taped. where they go down inside a wall partition they have an exterior jute fiber tube called loom. they may be fastened on a stud, they may be just hanging there and go into a box using the loom. the wires are the same color. they may use a sort of white color but most times its just the same color as the hot wire. the main line is a ten wire or an eight wire solid. these lines are fused with a 30 amp fuse which is why its kinda dangerous. the branches that drop down off these wires are not fused properly so you could have a 14 ga wire running off a 30 amp feeder.