Basement Floor Getting Water...Pics

[DKAudio]

My basement floor was painted when we bought the house. I don't think it is a water proofing paint however. We have about 1.5'-2' of snow on the ground and it has been 32-37 the past few days. My basement is about 6-7' below ground level, house built in 1954.









Should I be concerned? I put gutters on about a year and a half ago when I moved in but they are all full of ice. My grades could use a little help but it seems to be only coming on the backyard side of the house.

Should I do anything? The last pic shows how it is bubbling up the paint in some areas, this has to be hydrostatic pressure, right?

[Robbie245]

Wet basement solutions

Stand OUTSIDE during an active rain storm to watch how the water flows or accumulates around your property. If water is building up against your home, GRADING should be your 1st priority.

You should get HEAT TAPE for your gutters if they are freezing up. Make sure your downspouts are extended away from your foundation. Good luck.

[DKAudio]

Downstpouts are extended pretty far.

By heat tape you mean heated resistive wire, correct? Kind of like people put in zig zaps on their roof? What about the downspouts? I would have to put it in there too wouldn't I?

My grade is not that good but it is going to be really tough to fix. Let me see if I can explain this so you understand...
I have aluminum siding. My grade is slopping slightly towards the house for about 3 feet (very minor slope). If you put a level on the end of the slope and the other end hit the house, the earth is above my siding slightly. See pic below to clarify.

[pushkins]

You have pretty well identified your own problem, the ground needs to slope away from the property as you know. You cannot fill the lower area against the house as it would bring the level far to high, you need the level to remain well under the siding.
The only solution to your problem here would to be to remove the top of the small rise.
You could dig down and install a French drain but this would be much more work and the result is you want to move the water away from the area and not have to deal with it once it is there.

There really is very little in the way of water proof paints that will work well when applied to the inside of a basement, the principle is that they seal off the water from entering the internal side of the basement wall or floor, but in reality what you are doing is allowing it to permeate through the brick or block and hit the painted barrier. Water will accumulate inside the cinder blocks and , as water will always do eventually, seep it's way in.

Sealers work best when applied on the exterior side thus stopping the water permeating the block in the first place.

[DKAudio]

haha, sweet, so now I have to rent a bobcat?!

On the side of my house (grass is about 20' then my neighbors driveway) it is all gradually sloping towards me. Without re-doing my whole neighbors yard I can't do anything about that side.

On the other side of my house I have a strip of grass about 30 ' long going from front to back (only about 5' wide), then my concrete driveway. The driveway is probably a little taller than the bottom of my siding and the grass is about 4" below the edge of the driveway. Again, how would I fix that side?

[pushkins]

Install a simple drain,
Dig a trench along the side of the house 6" - 12" from the wall (not up against it) 12" deep make sure the trench is heading downhill and away from the house , remember you only need 1/4" / foot drop for correct drainage. in the bottom of the trench place drainage gravel (about 2" deep) then put perforated corrigated pipe with a silt sock on it then back fill with drainage gravel again up to 10" then soil and grass the remaining 2". The water wll be attracted to the drain line and be sent along it's merry way away from the basement wall.

For cheap and fast you can just dig the trench 10" deep lay the pipe and back fill with soil and grass on top. (this is not the best way as years down the track the pipe's perforations may become blocked with soil)


(although regrading your neighbors entire yard the next time they are out would be an amusing thing to do...lol)

[DKAudio]

Damn, that is a lot of work and money. When the snow melts and spring comes I will go out there with a level and see if I can do the 1/4" per foot. My front yard is going down hill (I look down on the street). I would guess up by my house it is 8' high than at the street, it just slopes back near my house. Also, my paint picture is exagerating just for visual understanding. I may be able to make it work.

When I dig up the yard to make it slope, do I need to put down plastic underneath? Or, is the 1/4" per ' enough to get water away before it penetrates into the soil?

I should probably make a tamp somehow too, huh?

If I am going to do all this work maybe I should do some landscapping with edgers and gravel? Anything I should know about grades when doing that?

[pushkins]

You don't need to use any plastic in the trench and there is really no need to use a tamper.
what you are creating is simply an easier spot for the water to go to, water would much rather be in a void (pipe, loose gravel etc...etc...) than entrapped in soil. This is sorta the same effect that digging a pond is to drying out a block of land, if the water has an easier place to be that is where it will go, once in the pipe with 1/4" / foot slope away it goes on it's merry way to the road.

Secret to working with water is just that work "WITH" it , make it's job easy and it will generally leave you alone.

If you decide to do some landscaping at the same time, you could always build a small wall/garden edge 6" out from the house make this edge higher than the uphill section and fill with soil thus making the slope an outward fall from the house, just make sure that the area between the garden edge and the house (6") doesn't fill with debris. If you do it this way I'd still install the drain system but your digging will be reduced by the height of the new garden edge.

Ideally you would want to cut back the ground between you and your neighbors and reform it into a shallow V and then the water would drain from your house into the V and from your neighbors run off into the V and then out to the road. For the cost of a small bobcat for a few hours, some seed or grass sod this might be an easier route ? No need to dig in a drain, no gravel, no corrugated pipe and water problems solved forever.


Code ssays for landscaping drainage : landscape drainage is required a minimum of .233 % slope. This is about a 1/4" in 100 feet of drainage pipe.

[DKAudio]

I was wondering about the tamp and plastic if I just do a slopped grade (no trench)

I am probably going to do some type of landscapping too but I would want to go out farther than 6". I want to do something like this...


I would just need to put down a weed blocking fabric in that case, right? If I put down stones do those count as the slope or would I have to go by the soil underneather the stones?

On the driveway side of my house see the pic below...I might put down stones there too and some plants instead of a patio, not sure yet.

[IMG][/IMG]

[pushkins]

If you could slope the grade in any way to get the water away from the house you will go a long way to solving your problem. You could slope the grade from the back of the house to the front of the house and then away from the home, the only problem with this is that as the water travels from the rear to front it still has time to soak into the ground around the home as it travels the 30 or so feet.

Plastic laid on the ground and then covered in rock would also help the probelm but it would need to be at least three feet wide the entire length of the house. This wouldn't look very pretty.

Gravel does not count as grade in relation to drainage, water will simply pass through the gravel and sit on the soil below and as that slopes towards the house, then that's where the water will go.

You have to be careful with landscaping against the house as this too can create a problem especially in your situation as you cannot build the garden any higher than basically the existing ground, any drainage like a french drain built under the garden will dry out the garden and you will never be able to provide enough water to the plants.

I still say dig a trench midway between the house and the peak on the ground (you mentioned it was about 3 feet from the house at it's highest point) toss in 2" of drainage gravel lay in the corrugated pipe with a sock on it backfill with another 2" of gravel over the pipe and then soil and grass or a garden with plants that like it dryer. (NOTE: plant roots WILL invade the corrugated pipe over time)



A patio on the driveway side built up to slope towards the driveway would solve the problem on the driveway side of the house (not gravel or loose stone) You would be best to build the patio from pavers or concrete this would force and allow the water to flow across the surface onto the driveway and out to the street, if you use any permiable product the water will simply pass through (like stine) and you will still have the same problem.

If the ground level on the other side of the pathway/sidewalk (in your picture) is lower than the ground level between the house and driveway you could always dig under the pathway/sidewalk install a 2" or 3" pipe under the walk and let the water out of the house side through this pipe.

[DKAudio]

Cool, thanks. I have some ideas now. Unless I think of something else I probably won't post until spring once the snow is all gone as there is nothing I can do right now.

Thanks

[DKAudio]

Ok, I started shaving away grass in the front yard. I decided I will just scrap off the hill and make a proper grade. I still want to do some landscaping though. Was thinking about plastic edger but it usually doesn't look too nice. Then I thought about doing concrete edgers like the ones shown...

If I put some river rock between the house and the edger should I use plastic underneath or the fabric type? The rock can go directly on top of the material, I don't need to put soil down first, do I?

Do you have any better ideas than the plastic or concrete with river rock? It seems like so many houses have it, I would like to do something different. Money is definitly an issue though.

Finally, unless I shave off half my yard there may be a small valley at 8-10' out from the house. My front yard is a hill going down to the street so most of it is great for the grade, it just has some small humps which may create this small valley.


This pic is exagerated for clarity.

[DKAudio]

Bump, Pushkins, you around

It has been 3 days since my above post and I got all the grass shaved off up to about 9' from the house. I am now working on removing dirt to get a proper grade. It is very tough because the dirt is so hard and compacted. I am slowly making progress.

I have some nice fabric type weed blocker but if I should use plastic I will go buy some.

One other question in addition to my ones in the above post...
Is there a trick to get the slope flat? I am using a spade shovel to remove the dirt and it leaves a very uneven surface. I made a tamp out of scrap steel but it doesn't change it much since the dirt is so hard. Then I bought a bow rake but again, the earth is too hard. Any tips?

[pushkins]

Sorry DK for not getting back to you sooner.

Your plan your the grade 9' feet out is good, the further the better if you cannot get it totally graded away. Your lucky that your front yard slopes away so well it gives you an easy place to send water.
If you grade 1/4 in 1' then the weed fabric will be fine, it's obviously not going to stop water but your grade will push the water away from the home.
The rock or mulch or whatever your using for a garden cover can go straight over the weed fabric, you could still plant some small plants or shrubs in this area, that too would help with any extra water.

As for the "flatness' of the grade, the easiest way by hand in challenging soil is to get it as close to graded with your hand tools, shovels etc... then get some nice top soil and rake it over the area to smooth out the grade, then lay your sod. If your not laying sod on any of this area then just hand grade to 1/4" in 1' doesn't have to be pretty then cover with your ground cover material.
No matter how you put it though, this is pure "grunt" work by hand.

Bottom line is.....as long as the base ground slope is away from the house, it doesn't matter how deep your mulch or river rock is, it could be 3' deep against the house and 6" deep 4' out, (the depths are for explanation only..... ) the water will drop through the rock to the ground and then be sent away from the house and on it's merry way to the street.

[DKAudio]

Great thanks. I bought a square point shovel today and that helped. However, there still are some areas that are lower (small valleys). I am worried that water will pool in these areas. The grade looks great until I use a 2X4 and see how un-straight the slope is. You're right, this is very hard work, probably spent 20 hours on it now and I still have to do the other 2 sides of the house and build up the back!

As for landscapping I am thinking the following...
Make a walking path out of large natural shaped (wavy cut) pavers. Use the concrete pieces shown in the pic above as my edging and then fill with river rock. Make a area for the wife to plant as well
If I do those walking pavers, do I still need a 4" class 5 paver base and then 2" sand? I will probably use the whole 9' area for this.

On the driveway side of the house (paver patio area) I am thinking about using the same natural cut pieces. Since that is going to be a large area then I know I need the 4" base with 2" sand, I am going to have to move a lot of earth for that!

Thanks

Dan