Bathroom floor - Do I need to seal?

[SlowCoder]

Hello all! I'm in a house that has required a bit of work to make it livable. Not a shabby house, but it obviously had some other wanna-be do-it-yourselfers who didn't know how, or really seem to care if, they did things right. I mean ... If you saw what I've seen ...

Anyway ... I've removed my toilet (totally disgusting job, by the way ) and stripped the original linoleum in my bathroom. It appears that the toilet has been leaking underneath, and water has seeped under the linoleum, and into the concrete over the years.

* Is it necessary to seal the concrete before laying down my new linoleum tiles?
* What other prep should I do before laying the new tiles?
* Also, the old flooring was cut at the edge of the toilet, and did not go under the toilet. I've been told it's better to lay the new tile before reinstalling the toilet. What do you think?

[pushkins]

It's not necessary to "seal" the concrete BUT it is necessary to clean it well and let it dry out before applying any new floor covering.
When you install the new flooring no matter what type (linoleum, tile...etc...etc) it should always go completely under the toilet up to the toilet flange (but not touching it).
If you raise the floor in any way with ceramic tile etc... then you may well need to add a toilet flange extender ring, these are available at any hardware store or plumbing supply place.

[SlowCoder]

Wow! Excellent, and prompt response! Thanks. I hadn't considered the flange extender, so that was a good suggestion.

I have another question about the toilet flange itself, but I'll post that in the appropriate forum ...

[Troy]

Wow! Excellent, and prompt response!

Yep, pushkins is very Handy, man

[HayZee518]

if this floor is all concrete, you may consider using a diluted mix of hydrochloric acid and water to clean it. use PLENTY of ventilation, rubber gloves, safety goggles and a respirator. Mix acid into water not water into acid. A violent reaction will take place if the proper procedures are not followed. the resulting mixture creates heat so stir it constantly when mixing. scrub the floor with a good hemp brush then flush it completely with clean cool water. let thoroughly dry. use some soda bicarb and water to neutralize the acid - it will bubble.

[pushkins]

Hey Troy, when do I gwaduate frowm handy mannnn to sumptin else ?

[SlowCoder]

Ain't it amazing how a small DIY can become a big one?

* First we said "why don't we replace the floor?" So, we went out and bought linoleum tiles.
* Then I said "I think it's a good time to fix the toilet." So, we went out to get the items required, and removed the toilet. After more discussion, we decided to buy a new toilet because we didn't really like the old one anyway.
* Now, why not go ahead and upgrade to ceramic tile? It's not like we have ANY of the required tools for this ...
* Then we said "We don't like the current paint job on the walls. Let's repaint." Off to the store again. New paint, orange peel, tape, sanding paper, and spackle to fix the dimples and humps in the current paint job.
* Oh, and while we're at it, how about tiling the countertop? Heck, we'll have all the tools for the floor already, right? But we'll need a new sink, too.
* Yeah, but the cabinet's current color doesn't match the tile we want to install ... more paint!

So, here we are, $650 in the hole so far. We haven't purchased anything for the coutertop yet, but that'll be coming soon. We started at "just install new linoleum", and are now installing a new toilet, ceramic tile on the floor and countertop, painting the walls and cabinets! Looks like we're also going to replace the current cabinet hardware, too. Woohoo!

Oh, dern ... forgot the caulk! Back to the store again ...!

[SlowCoder]

Update:
* Ok, so we went out and bought new shiny parts for the tub to spiff it up. Figure we'll keep the tub, not worrying about having to re-drywall, and all the other things that go with replacing the tub ... Didn't think I was ready for that task, yet. Well, guess what? I broke the tub! Yes. I broke the overflow pipe while installing a new seal. So, I have to yank the tub out to see what the damage is! I'm figuring if I'm going to remove it anyway, I might as well replace it. Looks like we're going with a new tub, and are going to install tile walls in the tub.

* After removing the cabinet, we found out the it's falling apart! Much of the board underneath has suffered water damage and rot. We're replacing that too!

Haven't tallied yet, but looks like we're in the hole about $1500. Wife's not too pleased.

[mrcaptainbob]

Home repairs....

Welcome to the reason there's a Home Repair Forum!
Soooo many of us have "been-there-done-that", and personally am "Being-there-doing-that"!!
Hang in there. The end is in sight. And I'm begining to think the end will be in sight forever!

[SlowCoder]

Thanks, mrcaptainbob, for the encouragement. Yes, I think the end is in sight. Almost seems to me demolition is the harder part of the job.

I removed the tub. Chopped it up with my jigsaw. Found out the original tub drain pipe was not recessed into the concrete like it should be. New tubs won't mount to the old drain. So now I'm using a hammer drill to notch a path in the concrete to recess it. Yet another skill learned. Methinks I'll be able to hire myself out for reconstruction jobs before too long.

On to my next questions:
* What is the best way to chisel around the drain pipe that goes down into the concrete without damaging it? I've been trying to work on it using the hammer drill and chisel, and have managed to break off the top of the pipe by accident. Luckily I will be cutting the pipe a little further down than that, so I don't think it's a problem where I already broke it.
* If I do manage to break it too far down, what is the best method of repair? Can I get an inside fitting and attach a new extension to it?
* What is the best way to cut the recessed pipe at the depth I need it, as it will be below the top of the concrete, and seems would be difficult to cut with a hacksaw?

[HayZee518]

use small drill bits and chisel with small chisels. when you use a chisel in concrete you are expanding the area on both sides of the chisel so anything can happen.the cast iron and cured concrete form a homogenous mass. the cast iron joints are what is called a hub and spigot joint. the spigot fits into the hub and oakum and lead form the joint. when water hits the oakum the stuff expands to form a seal which can be quite tight when properly installed. there's a fitting called a DESANKO fitting which you may be able to put into your cracked hub followed with some oakum and use two part epoxy sealant instead of lead for the joint.

[SlowCoder]

The pipes are PVC, not iron. Anyhoo, I think I've resolved the pipe issue, and am now ready to install a tub. Just very careful with the hammer drill and chisel. I cut the pipe with a hacksaw blade in my hand. Took a while, but I think it'll do.

[SlowCoder]

Ok, I kind of diverted this thread from my original question. So, now I'm moving back on topic.

So, on cleaning my concrete floor in preparation for tiling ...

Hydrochloric acid was given as an option. I'm not sure I'm keen on using such a powerful liquid, and my bathroom is interior (no window), and down a hall, before it gets ventilation.


So, if I sweep, vacuum and mop the floor very well, is that enough, or do I need to do more?

[pushkins]

If it were me I'd be cleaning the floor with something, in your situation with no good ventilation I suggest you don't use hydrochloric acid.

If you have the floor clean of all the previous flooring material and glue then use a vinegar base cleaner ( 1 part vinegar to 1 part water) pour it on the floor then with a scrubbing brush and circular motions scrub the floor, mop it up and then mop it down with clean water, allow it to throughly dry then vacuum and lay your tile.

There are other cleaners available, but you will find most are going to be acid based.

[SlowCoder]

So, what do I use to remove the old glue? We scraped the floor, and it feels smooth, but you can still see some of the glue.