HVAC NIghtmare

[paul52446m]

Part number is Q3400 for the igniter. The flame rod's job is to sense heat from the pilot light and prove for the Smartvalve it is ready for gas to the burners-is this right?

Always had a Smartvalve.

It is as originally engiennered. The diagrams all match up. It is an early 90's Goodman

I think I will try replacing the igniter. Gently messing with the flamerod it was kinda lose inside the ceramic housing...maybe a short.

Some are calling this and "HSI."

I think we covered this before but the flame rod and pilot do not work on sensing heat The flame is producing a milliamp power that goes back to the smart valve to prove flame. It is important that you have a clean properly
adjusted pilot The inter blue flame of the pilot has to go from the pilot head to the flame rod to make this electric circuit If the flame lifts off the pilot burner head you lose connection If the pilot does not have this inter blue flame it will not be hot enough to make the right power. It kind of sounds like you do not have the proper pilot flame. If you don't then the glow bar will not want to lit the pilot. If you don't have the right gas-air mix then it won't lite. paul

[Freezing]

Part number is Q3400 for the igniter. The flame rod's job is to sense heat from the pilot light and prove for the Smartvalve it is ready for gas to the burners-is this right?

Always had a Smartvalve.

It is as originally engiennered. The diagrams all match up. It is an early 90's Goodman

I think I will try replacing the igniter. Gently messing with the flamerod it was kinda lose inside the ceramic housing...maybe a short.

Some are calling this and "HSI."

[paul52446m]

Round 10

Every time this thing "clicks" it is letting out a small amount of gas through the pilot. I verified this by holding a lighter to the end of the pilot tube, whcih results in a brief flame.

Like last night-when I first started messing with it, the pilot did light and burn for a minute (approx) and then it went out, but getting this minute long pilot burn to repeat can only be done by going back the next day-like today.

The valve never does release gas to the 3 burners. When the pilot was burning I saw the flame rod was glowing orange along with the burning pilot light (about one inch). Is it a possibility the flame rod is not "proving" that the pilot is burning so the Smartvalve will not release gas to the burners? Can I check this by bypassing the flame rod to ground by grounding the flame rod wire out?

Took out the igniter and cleaned with a 3M pad.

Should I buy an igniter first or control board?

Wiggled the wires around on the smartvalve gently but could not determine if there was a short, if I were to guess I would say not from the way it acted; no matter what I did with the wires/plug-ins it acted the same way.

This unit did not have a smart valve on it before , did it ?. You say this unit now has a glow bar and a flame rod? I did not see a glow bar in your pic..
If this unit did not have a smart valve before, why did you use one now?
I have never seen a smart valve and glow bar used on a outdoor unit, they don't work in the wind. Did this pilot assembly come with this smart valve?
later paul

[Freezing]

Round 10

Every time this thing "clicks" it is letting out a small amount of gas through the pilot. I verified this by holding a lighter to the end of the pilot tube, whcih results in a brief flame.

Like last night-when I first started messing with it, the pilot did light and burn for a minute (approx) and then it went out, but getting this minute long pilot burn to repeat can only be done by going back the next day-like today.

The valve never does release gas to the 3 burners. When the pilot was burning I saw the flame rod was glowing orange along with the burning pilot light (about one inch). Is it a possibility the flame rod is not "proving" that the pilot is burning so the Smartvalve will not release gas to the burners? Can I check this by bypassing the flame rod to ground by grounding the flame rod wire out?

Took out the igniter and cleaned with a 3M pad.

Should I buy an igniter first or control board?

Wiggled the wires around on the smartvalve gently but could not determine if there was a short, if I were to guess I would say not from the way it acted; no matter what I did with the wires/plug-ins it acted the same way.

[Freezing]

I made a video of what it is doing that I have posted on youtube, probably better than what I can describe. It has been turned off all day and when I first went out to look at it tonight it did glow and I had a small flame which eventually just went out. Later all it did was the two click deal that I mentioned before. Finally, all it did was "click" one time, but not much more than that.

If "prove" means it has the pilot light on and is ready for gas to the 3 burners, then it does seem stuck at this "proving" and it gives up as it cannot detect a flame.

The video might take a few minutes for youtube to process it. youtube.com/watch?v=74a3DxlqOhQ

[Freezing]

Went out today and it was doing it's old routine; call for heat, 5-8 second delay until inducer motor starts running, then "click click" (coming from smart valve area) that simply repeated this two-click cycle until I cut power at the breaker.

Unhooked "MV" (brown wire) at the control board, switched power on at breaker and got one only one click and it never clicked again. What occurred: removed MV wire, power on at breaker (preexisting call for heat), 5-8 seconds inducer motor, few seconds later "click" (one time) and nothing follows except continuous running of the inducer motor.

Guessing, but the click I am hearing is a gas valve inside the smartvalve?

I have a picture of the igniter. I thought I observed a glowing, but it looks like spark ignite system, so I am all confused.

Having trouble during the day seeing of the igniter is glowing or not. I think it is

[Freezing]

Paul thanks for clarifying that it only works off the thermostat. I will mess with it when the rain dries up in the next couple of days and get back to you.

Forgot to mention:
7. Inducer Motor blade
8. Paint Job

[paul52446m]

I messed with the heat side this summer on my outdoor packaged heat and air unit and got it working.

I replaced:
1. inducer motor;
2. rollout switch;
3. some melted wires;
4. smart valve;
5. inspection window

It worked fine after replacing the aforementioned parts, but seems to have tripped the roll-out "switch" (I have concluded the roll-out switch was bad as bypassing this "switch" by connecting the white and orange directly resulted in a flame ignition and burning). Adjusted gas resulted in nice controlled flame without any roll-out upon ignition or burn.

Now, after a few weeks of light use, when I call for heat I can hear the smart valve click and then click again within a fraction of a second. Then the valve does nothing for several seconds then just repeats this rapid two-sound click. I do observe the igniter glowing and a light odor of gas. My blower motor does not come on and the inducer motor always runs with a call for heat.

The working cycle normally resulted in a flame that would go out upon initial attempt of ignition then it would light again and typically burn this second time.

Now just this seemingly quick cycle of disappointment.

Any help is appreciated.

It works off the thermostat only. The first thing that happens is the inducer comes on, then it proves and sparker should
start sparking and then pilot gas turns on. Take the MV wire off the sparker box so only pilot gas can come on. Now you can watch it and tell me what it does. When the sparker comes on and the pilot gas comes on then it should lite the pilot. The pilot flame has to go from the pilot head to the ground prongs,m and around the flame rod. Make sure the pilot flame does not lift off the pilot head because that will break electric contact. That little nail looking thing in your pilot burner assembly is the flame rod , use some fine sand paper and clean that flame rod. Later Paul

[Freezing]

I don't have the pic. any more. Do you have a glow bar and a flame rod on that burner assembly or just a glow bar?
Check that plug in connection on that smart valve. I think they have had some problem with them. If you do have only a glow bar then it is real easy to not get it lined up right. It has to be straight with the burners just about 1/8
above the straighter tube. send me some pic. of the burners and controls again. later paul paulm989@hotmail.com

Paul sent an email with a bunch of photos before I worked on it.

Wondering if this thing has an ambient temp gauge that will prevent the heat side from working when outside temp is in the mid 70's f?

[paul52446m]

I messed with the heat side this summer on my outdoor packaged heat and air unit and got it working.

I replaced:
1. inducer motor;
2. rollout switch;
3. some melted wires;
4. smart valve;
5. inspection window

It worked fine after replacing the aforementioned parts, but seems to have tripped the roll-out "switch" (I have concluded the roll-out switch was bad as bypassing this "switch" by connecting the white and orange directly resulted in a flame ignition and burning). Adjusted gas resulted in nice controlled flame without any roll-out upon ignition or burn.

Now, after a few weeks of light use, when I call for heat I can hear the smart valve click and then click again within a fraction of a second. Then the valve does nothing for several seconds then just repeats this rapid two-sound click. I do observe the igniter glowing and a light odor of gas. My blower motor does not come on and the inducer motor always runs with a call for heat.

The working cycle normally resulted in a flame that would go out upon initial attempt of ignition then it would light again and typically burn this second time.

Now just this seemingly quick cycle of disappointment.

Any help is appreciated.

I don't have the pic. any more. Do you have a glow bar and a flame rod on that burner assembly or just a glow bar?
Check that plug in connection on that smart valve. I think they have had some problem with them. If you do have only a glow bar then it is real easy to not get it lined up right. It has to be straight with the burners just about 1/8
above the straighter tube. send me some pic. of the burners and controls again. later paul paulm989@hotmail.com

[HayZee518]

R-134a can't be just swapped out because the internal O rings have a different make-up. The lubrication oil needs to be cleaned out and replaced with oil compatible with 134a. The boiling point of R-134a and R-22 is different so if there is a thermal expansion valve in the system, this needs to be changed out also. R-22 can't just be vented out to the atmosphere. It must be recovered. You need to be EPA certified for this.
Go to this page for parts:
HVAC Parts Outlet - Home

[Freezing]

I messed with the heat side this summer on my outdoor packaged heat and air unit and got it working.

I replaced:
1. inducer motor;
2. rollout switch;
3. some melted wires;
4. smart valve;
5. inspection window

It worked fine after replacing the aforementioned parts, but seems to have tripped the roll-out "switch" (I have concluded the roll-out switch was bad as bypassing this "switch" by connecting the white and orange directly resulted in a flame ignition and burning). Adjusted gas resulted in nice controlled flame without any roll-out upon ignition or burn.

Now, after a few weeks of light use, when I call for heat I can hear the smart valve click and then click again within a fraction of a second. Then the valve does nothing for several seconds then just repeats this rapid two-sound click. I do observe the igniter glowing and a light odor of gas. My blower motor does not come on and the inducer motor always runs with a call for heat.

The working cycle normally resulted in a flame that would go out upon initial attempt of ignition then it would light again and typically burn this second time.

Now just this seemingly quick cycle of disappointment.

Any help is appreciated.

[Freezing]

OK, I will make sure to stick with the 1/40. That one on Amazon is 1/200hp. I see people are failing to discern between the 1/200 and the 1/400.

Looks like I need the 3kRPM, 1/40hp. 208-230v, 1/4amp.

Do you know what the part number is definitely?

[paul52446m]

Found some estimates on the inducer motor 1/40hp for just over $100 online at :
comfortgurus.com/product_info.php/products_id/2764.

Does it get any cheaper than that? Maybe some kind of universal motor that has the special sensor built-in and wired accordingly ... I just cant see that motor being worth so much. I admit I am a tight-wad.

Found another one for a Rheem that comes with a new fan blade for $85 and looks exactly the same and claims to replace B19400:

climatedoctors.com/items/item.aspx?itemid=2622220


Is the best price I can expect? Every time I search I find it a penny cheaper. Emailed a link to the pics.

Thanks,
Mike


Edit: now just found it for 85 shipped w/new blade on ebay.
Edit: now about 71 on amazon, but it says 1/200 hp.

there is a big difference between a 1/40 and a 1/200 Hp. you better make sure it the right one with the right HP, the right RPM. and you motor has a end switch built into it and you have to have that. That vent fan has be move the right amount of air or your furnace will never work right and you could have the fire coming out the front again. I can only condone direct replace parts

[Freezing]

Found some estimates on the inducer motor 1/40hp for just over $100 online at :
comfortgurus.com/product_info.php/products_id/2764.

Does it get any cheaper than that? Maybe some kind of universal motor that has the special sensor built-in and wired accordingly ... I just cant see that motor being worth so much. I admit I am a tight-wad.

Found another one for a Rheem that comes with a new fan blade for $85 and looks exactly the same and claims to replace B19400:

climatedoctors.com/items/item.aspx?itemid=2622220


Is the best price I can expect? Every time I search I find it a penny cheaper. Emailed a link to the pics.

Thanks,
Mike


Edit: now just found it for 85 shipped w/new blade on ebay.
Edit: now about 71 on amazon, but it says 1/200 hp.