Water Hammer - Well water, tank, pump

[tcrews65]

All,

I have an issue that requires some detail so bear with me a bit.

Problem:
I am experiencing water hammer when running a single outside faucet to a manual, not automatic sprinkler. This issue has been ongoing for some time, randomly banging pipes, but has escalated this year. I have no issues running internal faucets, appliances, and toilets.

Outside faucet Setup:
I have three outside faucets, each has a timer on it so I can schedule the watering of my lawn. Each timer is setup with a different on/off time from the other two. this was intended to ensure I was gettnig enough pressure to the sprinklers for them to be effective. Seems logical.

Inside Plumbing:
All water is delivered by copper pipe, need to check the size. I have a well tank (xtrol by ameritol) that is pressurized to 40psi, this remains relatively constant. The water from the well feeds into the tank and piping from the tank feeds the internal and external water plumbing. for internal there is an inline water regulator (watts); however the water from the tank is delivered directly to the outside with no regulator. I do not know if this is a standard config or not, but it is one of the things I noted as being different. Additionally the copper piping to the outside is smaller than the piping feeding it from the tank, again this may not be an issue, just want to point it out.

Observation:
When the problem occurs I have observed two things.
1) The water from the sprinkler increases then decreases and continues to do so for the length of time it is on.
2) On the inside of the house the tank/valve is constantly clicking - on and off. I do not have much knowledge of these tanks, but I know this behavior is the reason I see the water flow increase and decrease and is directly tied to the water hammer.

Question:
Why is the tank/valve clicking on and off when delivering water to a single outside faucet?

Why does it cease to do this when delivering water to two outside faucets.

Why have I never had an issue with the inside plumbing?

Finally, any insights on this issue and how to address?

Thanks in advance

Please excuse any misspellings

Terry
tcrews65@gmail.com

[Redwood]

First this is not water hammer. Water hammer is a banging when the flow is quickly stopped caused by momentum.

I'm no pump expert but if you have a bladder style pressure tank start by checking the pressure in it.

Read here how to do it...

SpeedBump is the pump expert here I'll pass word onto him that you can use his help...

[HayZee518]

the pump storage tank has a air bladder in it. the air space above the water is set around 40-50 psi. when you draw water off the tank, the internal pressure drops kicking in the pump. purpose of the tank besides storage is to take up the pulsations of the pump turning on and off. if you notice the pump pulsations then either the back pressure is way off or the bladder is shot. high oscillations of on - off pump times will burn out your pump motor.

[Redwood]

The precharge pressure on the tank will be 2 psi less than the pressure where the pump turns on...

Not 40-50....

There is a rather specific procedure for checking the bladder and setting the precharge at the link I provided in my earlier post...

[Speedbump]

The fact that your pump (switch or tank as you called it) is cycling on and off when your using one sprinkler indicates a pump with a very short life expectancy. You need to use enough water when watering to prevent the pump from cycling on and off. What you want is for the pump to come on, increase in pressure to a point where the sprinklers are running good but the pump can't make enough pressure against them to reach shut off pressure. The banging may be the pump turning on and off, which could be a totally different problem or it could be the sprinkler timers closing. They close very quickly which could cause a bang.

Your inside plumbing may be using more water which may keep the pump running. The fixtures in the home close slower and won't cause water hammer and you probably have some sort of hammer arrestors. Redwood would know if they are standard these days. I'm not sure what they do now a days.

If you could take a few snap shots of your set up so I can see where this Watts valve is along with the tank/switch it would be helpful.

[tcrews65]

Well Pump and Plumbing Config Pictures

Thanks to everyone for their assistance. I am attaching pictures so there is a clearer understanding of the configuration. The PSI on the well tank guage is slighlty less than 40. I read the instructions to check the bladder pressure in the tank. I have two valves/openings on the top of the tank, one is directly on top (dead center) looks like a nut, the other is off the edge and has a cover on it. I suspect this is where I would pump the bladder should I need to recharge. Of course there is a warning next to this valve indicating I could violate the warrantly, that said after 8 years I do not think the warranty is valid anymore.

Regarding the pressure guage that is showing ~40psi, is this the pressure that the pump turns on/off? to be honest I have not seen that pressure guage move when observing these issues. If I need to recharge the bladder should I charge it to 38psi?

Again thanks for the help, not sure if I should continue the home diagnostics or reach out a professional. If I can at least narrow the issue down I would feel more comfortable having a conversation with a professional.

Terry

[HayZee518]

the 40 psi gauge is reading tank pressure. if you remove the pressure switch cover you'll see what the cut in/ cut out pressure setting is. there's a differential pressure between cut in and cut out - somewhere around 15 pounds. for the bladder pressure just use a tire gauge and read in psig.

[Speedbump]

Is the Watts valve in the line from the pump? If so, what are all the other valves for? Where does the pipe on the left side of the tank go?

I would assume from the looks of it, the gauge is stuck there.

[tcrews65]

• Left Pipe comes from the outside well into Tank
• Right Pipe feeds the water supply to the house
• the 4 valves on the wall are to the outside faucetts
• the watts valve on the wall is just above the 4 valves feeding the outside faucetts and is inline with the water supply to the house.

You guys are quick. I will check the pressure of the bladder and remove the cover to verify cut-in/out as well.

Thanks again

[Speedbump]

Why do you have a watts valve on the line feeding the house?

If your going to check the bladder tank, read this first: FAQ's

[tcrews65]

additional updates

Cut in is 40 psi
cut out is 60 psi

Read the pressure of the bladder it is around 34-35psi. Please note when I read this pressure water came out of the tank rather than air. I realize it is a water tank, but I would have expected air.

[Speedbump]

Did you read my FAQ page about bladder tanks?

If water comes out the valve stem, the tank is totally shot.

[tcrews65]

Tank Shot

yes, I went back and read again just to make sure the explanation and what I observed were the same, they are exactly as described. So yes I know I have a bad tank.

I do not see replacing the tank as a difficult proposition, but it is what I do not know that is unsettling. If you have an opinion on the matter I am open minded.

First step identifying a tank to replace, similar model and make. Any thoughts on increasing the size of the tank or just stay with a "like" model?

Instructions on disconnecting and installing - I can search the manufacturer's site and/or google.

Thanks for your help

Terry

[HayZee518]

gould is a good manufacturer of storage tanks

[Speedbump]

gould is a good manufacturer of storage tanks

Goulds do not make tanks, never did. Last time I knew, they were marketing the State tank. I wouldn't give you a nickel for a truckload of them.

The best two tanks on the market and the only two in my opinion are Well-X-Trol and Flexcon. Flexcon is marketed under several names. Well Rite, H2Pro, Challenger and Flex2 Pro. There might be others, but they are basically the same tank. Well X Trol also makes a tank for the big box stores. It is not the same tank.