Brine Tank Water Level

[Max]

Hi, Folks.

I have looked online for an answer to this but even though I have found many replies, I haven't seen anything quite like my exact situation.

Recently the overflow mechanism in my brine tank broke and that resulted in the brine tank pulling in too much water - waaaaay above the salt. The system has regenerated many times and the level stayed the same - I was hoping it would "auto-correct" but apparently that's not happening. I siphoned out as much as I could but it's now at about the same level as the salt.

I googled and found the manual for the softener and it says this:
Add water to brine tank (initial fill)
With a bucket or hose, add approximately 4 gallons (15 liters) of water to regeneration tank. If the tank has a salt platform above the bottom of the tank, add water until the level is approximately 1 inch (25mm) above the plaform.



From that can I safely imply that my brine tank should always contain about 4 gallons when it is not in operation? My brine tank has no salt platform.

Thanks, Max

[Redwood]

SpeedBump will be along shortly...
He knows everything there is to know about water treatment....

If you can though post back with the info on the brand and model of your softener head....

He might need that or, maybe not but if he does it will save time...

[Speedbump]

Here I am...

Some softeners have a setting on the head that will restrict the amount of water that goes back into the brine tank, or will have numbers representing the number of gallons to be replaced each backwash cycle. Some units simply put a float in the brine tank that when pushed up to the top position closed the inlet valve and maintains that level. If your float system broke, you need to get another one like it.

[Max]

Here I am...

Some softeners have a setting on the head that will restrict the amount of water that goes back into the brine tank, or will have numbers representing the number of gallons to be replaced each backwash cycle. Some units simply put a float in the brine tank that when pushed up to the top position closed the inlet valve and maintains that level. If your float system broke, you need to get another one like it.

Thanks, Speedbump.

I got a replacement float assembly but I couldn't get one just like the old one. Apparently the type that was in my brine tank isn't made any more! It looked old and had brass fittings, the new one is all plastic. I looked online and visited some local plumbing supply stores and everyone I showed it too looked perplexed.

The only setting I saw on my softener head was one that controlled the number of pounds of salt to use which I assume controls the volume of water.

I googled a number I got from the head and found the manual online which says :
Series 155 Valve / 440 Control

I don't know how old it is. We bought the house 8 years ago and it was here. The water pressure tank is 1991 if I recall (I'm sure I saw that printed / stamped on the tank before) but that doesn't mean the rest of the system is that old....just guessing.

I need to watch the brine tank the next time it regens because I am not convinced it's actually sucking any water out of the brine tank. Every time I check it it looks to be the exact same level and it should drop when it sucks the brine out.

Is there any way that the issues I am having with my brine tank could make my cold water smell a little funky?

Cheers, Max

[Speedbump]

The funky smell could be from the softener if water had been left in it for days/weeks maybe. Bacteria breeds in water if it sets too long.

You have an Autotrol head. It's a very good head, or at least it used to be until they sold out to somebody and they started making it harder to repair and easier to have to buy complete components for it.

The control on the head should work as long as the rubber ball behind that control is still in the unit. You can unscrew that device and check. With the Autotrol head, no brine valve was necessary.

I almost forgot. If your brine tank is filling up more with each backwash, your not pulling brine. This could be an air leak in the plastic line between the brine tank and the head, or the nozzle/venturi could be plugged. As you look at the head from the front, on the left and right side just behind the face is two plugs. The left one has a screen behind it. The right one has the nozzle/venturi. Unscrew both, clean them and replace them. The nozzle/venturi with the two o-rings in it has to be clean. You must be able to see through from one end to the other.

[Max]

I found the manual and apparently it's a Series 168.

The water in the softener shouldn't be "old" because I have the unit setup to recycle every other day (which might be excessive but sometimes we have issues with iron and more frequent regens seems to keep our water clearer).

I'm running a regen now and watching what happens. It's on the Brine and Rinse cycle now and, so far, the water in the brine tank is not going down even though the valve is open. Hmmmmm. The level in the brine tank seems constant - doesn't go up or down, so perhaps there is no brine going in or out, maybe a blockage. I'll check the things you said to check and see if there is something blocking. I looked for the two plugs you talked about but I didn't see them immediately....going to look again....

Cheers, Max

[Max]

Just looked again. No water being drawn out the brine tank. Am I right in saying that at the start of the brine and rinse cycle, water should be getting sucked into the softener? I unscrewed the pipe from the plastic elbow going into the head (the one coming from the brine tank) I expected to feel some suction but instead water ran out of the head. That doesn't seem right to me. The only valves open are:
brine valve (valve 1)
bypass valve (valve 2)
rinse drain valve (valve 5)

Cheers, Max


EDIT : found the plugs on the parts diagram in the manual, I'll check them out.

[Max]

I'm going back and forth. Sorry.

Here is the head unit I have:
Autotrol 168 Control Valve Assembly

Can you tell me which plugs I should be removing to check for blockages?

Thanks, Max

[Speedbump]

OK, the 168 is a different head than the 155. Below is a description of what to do.

[Max]

Super!

Very helpful stuff. While you were preparing that wonderful diagram I found the two plugs and took them off. It was murky in there. I blasted some air through (just a computer duster) and was eventualy able to see all the way through. I didn't take out the veturi but I will do that now. I cleaned the screen again. Thanks for tip re: the ball and more powerful backwash, I'll look into that as well.

Many thanks. I'll let you know if any of this works.......or if I need a new unit.

Cheers, Max

[Max]

Now I'm screwed. Oops. One of the plastic plugs has a crack in it and water squirts out. I didn't think I overtightened it, maybe it was fractured. Don't know. Got another one on order but I need to figure out how to patch this up so we have water until it arrives. Here's hoping that gorilla epoxy will do the job.

[Redwood]

Is SpeedBump Da Man or, what?

[Max]

Quick question......would I be able to use teflon tape wrapped around the plug that has a split in it as a workaround until the new plug arrives? I guess I need to explain how the plug is split first. The plug consists of a threaded portion (1/2") and a "head" that is about 3/4" in diameter. This means that there is a lip of about 1/8" extending beyond the threaded portion. About 50% of this lip has broken away but is still attached. If you were to hold the plug by the threads, you can flip the lip up. Not sure if I am doing a good job of explaining. When you tighten the plug it's the lip that holds the o-ring in place. The split allows water to squeeze past and then out into my basement. I have a couple of ideas:
1. order a new part. did that but need to wait on it to arrive,
2. wrap teflon tape around the threads so that water doesn't get as far as the o-ring / plug lip.
3. glue the plug and hope that it holds - from my experience, glueing things like this rarely works.
4. buy a washer that fits snugly between the o-ring and the plug lip.
5. bypass my water softener until the new part arrives - this is the last resort because that means we have totally unfiltered water coming into the house.

Pity there is nowhere close to me that sells stuff like this. I could try FW Webb but I'm not sure if they carry parts likes this. Doesn't hurt to give them a call but I am not holding my breath.

[Max]

Is SpeedBump Da Man or, what?

He sure is. I would give him even more thanks if he could come over right now with a spare plug for me.

[Max]

Just an update. Gluing the plug didn't seem to do much good. I know I am supposed to let it cure for 24 hour but I don't have time to do that. I tried teflon tape, that leaked. I tried more teflon tape and so far so good. Running a regen now so hopefully everything goes well. Thanks for the help, Folks!