More well pump problems

[Xfitter71]

I'm the guy with the prime the pump thread.

Failing to prime the pump I called the well people and they installed a new submersible. I installed a new 20 gallon tank. Their switch is a 50/20. It comes on at 35 and off at 50. The pressure in the tank is 25psi empty. When the pump hits 50 , most of the time it shuts off, sometimes it goes on and off rapidly, clic,clic,clic. Almost every time when it comes on. I know that's bad for the motor. Tank instructions say set air pressure at 2 lbs below cut on pressure. Could the 25 psi in the tank cause the on and off problem?
ill also describe the piping they did.the well is a 6" steel pipe liner. The the pipe exits the well and has a tee with the bull head looking at the tank piping. The tee has a red bushing and the switch is installed there. The tank is piped to the bull head side of the tee. Most switches are installed on the pipe where it exits the tank. The switch vibrates back and forth due to torque of the pump. I'm wondering if that is causing the switch do cut on and off.

[HayZee518]

pump

the pump switches on - off from a proportional band within the operating specs of the pressure switch.
pressure drops it switches on - reach setpoint, it switches off. if the proportional band is set too close to on-off it will rapidly switch on-off, on-off etc.
pressure switch should be set on the tank not the well head.
when the pump runs it builds pressure in the outlet pipe. when it shuts off, water drains back down the wellhead and reduces the pressure switch pressure, and so it starts again.

[Xfitter71]

That makes a lot of sense! The well guys didn't have the correct fittings to re-pipe the tank to the new pump so they used those push on fittings to connect to the existing tank piping and told me the tank was causing the problem. I went ahead and got a new tank because that one was ten or fifteen years old anyway. The problem was still there The pipe to the house is that black roll pipe 1/2", I asked them why would some one use 1/2" and he said you find that in most of the old homes here. Mine from the well to the house is 1". I'll probably be back about setting the switch. I've not had much luck doing that I the past. Thanks for the help.

[HayZee518]

pump techs

kinda doesn't make sense to pipe a new pump with old or undersized fittings. doesn't say much of the company. they could have gone to home depot and gotten the correct fittings.
ANYWAY
most well pump outlet pipes [black plastic] are 1 inch or bigger. with larger pipes there will be less back pressure to work against, versus length.
the pump feeds to the tank through a T, actually two Tees. one side goes to the house off the tank, the other goes to the pressure switch that tells the pump when to turn on or off. You could add another T just to mount a gauge telling line pressure.
the bladder in the tank will lessen the pump pulsations that MAY be detected by the pressure switch.

[HayZee518]

well pump

well pump diagram - multistage submersible pump

[Xfitter71]

I'm working on my mother In law's house that we're trying to sell. It's in pretty bad shape. Once I got water I found the water heater bad. It's been there since 88 so I might as well change it too. Here's how I'm gonna pipe the tank we've been talking about. I'm reducing the pipe out to 3/4 and then the switch, then the gage then water in from well, then reduce too the hose adapter to the 1/2" in to the house. Increasing the line to the house would be way to much for me. If the new owner wants it he can do it. I personally haven't experienced a problem in the past with low pressure or flow so I guess 1/2" is sufficient.

[HayZee518]

pressure vs velocity

My line coming from the city water supply is 1/2 copper buried about 6 ft underground to a gate valve.
My supplied pressure is about 62 psig.
What I did was come off the supply with a 3/4 ball valve and feed the cold with all 3/4 except for the tap offs to fixtures is 1/2 copper.
feed to the hot water tank [cold in] is 3/4 copper. Hot take off is 3/4 inch. Going up to bath is 3/4 where I branch off to shower, jacuzzi and lav sink is 1/2 inch.
Kitchen sink is 1/2 inch so is the dishwasher feed - 1/2 inch.
I can turn on any device and not experience a pressure drop at ANY fixture.
feeding your fixtures throughout with 1/2 inch, you may have the pressure but the volume won't be there.
I think the way you said about your piping, your pressure switch will see the pump pulsations.
so your pump will be turning on-off frequently.
draw a picture using windows paint and attach the file.

[Xfitter71]

I got my fittings for piping the tank and finished it up. I reduced the pipe out of the tank to 3/4". There's two tees both with branch up. First one off tank has the switch and press gauge, second one has the line from the pump. Out of the second tee is a 3/4" ball valve with red bush to 1/2" hose adapter to house. It's all neat and only takes out about 18". I closed the valve and turned on the pump. It filled the tank quickly and with out the prior problems. Now I'll install the water heater when I can get some help. That things too heavy for me alone.
I tell ya, I went to Lowes for my fittings but I don't think it's worth any savings. I spent forever looking through all mixed up fittings to find what I needed. They didn't stock 1/4" fittings at all. Said the heck with it and bought the heater from a local supply, it's a Bradford 40 gallon, should have went there to start with. Thanks for the heads up on switch location.

[HayZee518]

pump line

was thinking about it last night. wouldn't hurt to put in a horizontal brass check valve between the pump line and the pipe into your tank. then when the pump shuts down there'll be water in the discharge line already.

[Speedbump]

Are you saying the switch and tank are in different locations? Hopefully not, that will certainly make the switch chatter.

They should be within 4' of each other. The 1/2" pipe is another problem.

If these guys left the job with a switch chattering, you called the wrong guys for sure. And that condition would void most motor warranties.

[Xfitter71]

The switch is about nine inches from the tank inlet fitting which is 1". All piping is reduced to 3/4". The buried line to the house is 1/2". Way too much problem to change that out. I replaced the water heater today and all is working great, thanks for the advice.

[HayZee518]

water heater

1/2 inch is too small for an inlet to the hot water heater. the fitting on top of the heater is 3/4 inch! [NPT]
when you draw water off the heater it'll take too long for the make up water to replenish the tank.
why's you use a water hose fitting?

[Xfitter71]

[QUOTE=Xfitter71;54646]The switch is about nine inches from the tank inlet fitting which is 1". All piping is reduced to 3/4". The buried line to the house is 1/2". Way too much problem to change that out.
The line to the house is 1/2". The water heater piping is 3/4".