Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

New- Shower Question - Finding Source of Leak

Collapse

Forum Top GA Ad Widget

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • New- Shower Question - Finding Source of Leak

    I wasn't sure where to put this question so even though I don't think this is likely to be plumbing related, there seem to be "shower knowledgeable" people here.

    We have an upstairs newer or renovated bathroom addition in our 1949 bungalow. All materials look kind of cheap to me, and I suspect the shower was not particularly well made. (The vintage pepto pink downstairs is very solid, though, lathe & plaster). When we moved in 5 yrs. ago, there was a lot of heavy, sloppy, clear silicone caulk at every corner and along the edge of the tiled bench seat, which got progressively more moldy. We also saw evidence of previous water damage and repair to the ceiling in the living room, underneath the shower area, so we assume the previous owners had a problem and caulked the heck out of it. My husband, rather than re-caulking, arranged for a handyman acquaintance who had some some gutter work and misc. small jobs for us to re-grout, as he said he said he knew how to do that kind of work, and that all of that caulking was unnecessary, a good grout job should seal everything up.

    We should have hired a professional tile guy. A few months after that job was done, I was standing in the kitchen hearing A LOT of dripping in the ceiling when my husband was showering upstairs, and water started running down the wall underneath the kitchen cabinets, as well as coming through a small crack in the ceiling.

    We had handyman back out (about 6 weeks ago), he found some areas where the grout had chipped out on the floor, and I pointed out 8 or 10 areas on the walls, in addition to the whole edge of the bench which looked like it had not been grouted at all. He did more grouting, the dripping sound stopped, but we have seen progressive damage to the ceiling in the living room, which has spread out to a few isolated spots, one a good 6 feet away from the original area of damage. The paint does not feel wet, but looks cracked and puffy, kind of a scallopped look, and there is air behind it.

    We can't see any areas in the shower where grout is missing, but having had very tiny cracks in grout in the downstairs shower and seeing how much water went into the basement, I know it doesn't take much. I also know it could be something like the shower pan, though when he first came to repair after the obvious water leak, we tried pouring a bucket of water down the drain and I heard nothing. The dripping started when he ran the shower normally, as if if someone were using it. I don't think this is a pluming issue, but not sure how to tell.

    My question is - how can we determine the source of the leak, and could this ceiling damage showing up more prominantly now be the result of the previous leak? I am wondering if everything is actually sealed now, but that there was a large amount of water draining between the floors before we realized the problem, and it's just now working it's way through to the ceiling paint??

    I don't know what our next step should be, what type of contractor to call, and what the fix is likely to be. Very bad timing financially for anything major, and we may have to abandon his using that shower and share "my" shower (waaaah! - lol!), living with the damage for awhile.

    Thanks in advance for any advice!

  • #2
    It certainly sounds like your tile shower is a problem.

    Grout is not waterproof and seats are a real problem area.

    IMHO the Kerdi system is the best water proofing available today and is what I would use in my own home...

    You want to find a tile contractor that uses this method...

    Check this link out...
    Schluter Kerdi Shower, Accessible, Mold-free, Leakproof
    I stayed at a Holiday Inn Express last night.
    Now I can Plumb!

    For great information on the history of sanitary sewers including the use of Redwood Pipe
    Visit http://www.sewerhistory.org/
    Did you know some Redwood Pipe is still in service today.

    Comment


    • #3
      Thank you! The floor is tiled with those little 1 inch size tiles, and we originally thought that was the problem area because there were some areas where the grout he used had already come out. When I went to check mid-repair job, that's when I saw the corner of the seat was not grouted, and they had not re-sealed it with new caulking, either.

      We cannot afford to install a whole new shower right now (in which case it would make sense to re-do the whole poorly designed bathroom and knock into the crawl space for a tub), but I have a feeling we will have to call in a professional tile guy to grout again, caulk and repair, which hopefully can solve the problem until we can replace it or remodel the bathroom. We figured that was a long way off and would probably do the original 1949 downstairs pink bathroom, first.

      Do you have any thoughts on how to locate the source of the leak? What would you recommend if we cannot tear out and replace the whole shower?

      Comment


      • #4
        Truthfully you are wasting your time with that approach.

        Grout is not waterproof!
        Tile showers rely on a pan under the shower made of a waterproof material that directs water that comes through the grout to weep holes in the drain. Materials used for this waterproof pan include lead sheet, copper sheet, asphalt hot mop, possibly a few others that I forget and now Kerdi.

        Have a read at this next John Bridge link...
        Shower Pan Liner Replacement Ceramic Tile




        This is one of the drains that could be used...
        Watts: FD-100-FC | Floor Drain with Surface Membrane Clamp

        I stayed at a Holiday Inn Express last night.
        Now I can Plumb!

        For great information on the history of sanitary sewers including the use of Redwood Pipe
        Visit http://www.sewerhistory.org/
        Did you know some Redwood Pipe is still in service today.

        Comment


        • #5
          thank you. Ok, so you are saying we probably need to replace the floor/shower pan and drain? I gotta think it has something similar in there now, but maybe it has broken down or cracked.

          So poorly grouted or caulked seams elsewhere in the shower are not our main problem so much as the shower pan and drain that are supposed to be collecting it? I still would want to seal up any gaps as best possible, since I'm sure there is some mold underneath, but maybe replacing just the pan, floor and drain would be a more affordable project to get us by another 3-5 years.

          Comment


          • #6
            Just read the shower pan link you provided, it sounds almost not worth doing it without replacing the whole shower. Ugh.

            What I don't understand is why we had NO problems with leaking (at least none that we could see) until it was re-grouted and all the messy old caulking removed. It can't be a coincidence?

            Comment


            • #7
              All that caulk globbed on there wa a bandaid that was holding...
              A temporary at best solution...
              The only long term solution is to redo the shower...
              If it was cobbled up like that when you moved in a good home inspector should have caught it...

              Chances are you are looking at mold and rot issues as well.
              I stayed at a Holiday Inn Express last night.
              Now I can Plumb!

              For great information on the history of sanitary sewers including the use of Redwood Pipe
              Visit http://www.sewerhistory.org/
              Did you know some Redwood Pipe is still in service today.

              Comment


              • #8
                ok, thanks. It looks like that shower is not going to get used for awhile until we can afford to replace it. It seems stupid to replace just the shower in that small, substandard bathroom. All the cabinetry and hardware that was used is really cheap, along with the tile floor. I wonder if a remodel could realistically be done in stages, starting with the shower. Thank god for the second bathroom.

                Can you recommend a method for finding a contractor who uses that Kerdi method? I'm afraid if I just ask around, I might end up with someone who says they know to use the material, but actually has no experience with it. I think a lot of contractors in Michigan right now are a bit desperate for work.

                Comment


                • #9
                  You may go through this in kind of a back door manner...
                  Use this dealer locator to find a dealer in your area then ask them who uses the materials in your area, they may be able to steer you towards a few contractors they regularly supply with the material....
                  Dealer Locator - Schluter-Systems

                  Another possibillity is to pick up the John Bridge Book...
                  The Kerdi Shower Book - Mold-free, Leakproof and Accessible Tile Showers
                  Read up and try to DIY it....
                  You have the second bathroom so it's not like you are under the gun to have it completed in a couple of days...

                  John Bridge has an excellent tile forum second to none, to help you and as far as the plumbing portion I'll be here.

                  I would encourage you to think about upgrading the shower mixer as well while you have it torn out...
                  Delta came out with an excellent valve a few years ago, the R-10000 universal valve. Basicall it is a universal valve that is used on tubs, or showers. It comes with many trim options and can be ether thermostatic or, pressure balanced and have just temperature control or temperature and volume control. One valve fits all and you pick what you want it to do... You can also change it to a different type at a later date if you change your mind.

                  I have seen many posts by DIYers that have done Kerdi showers them selves in the manner I have described with excellent results.
                  I stayed at a Holiday Inn Express last night.
                  Now I can Plumb!

                  For great information on the history of sanitary sewers including the use of Redwood Pipe
                  Visit http://www.sewerhistory.org/
                  Did you know some Redwood Pipe is still in service today.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Thanks so much for the info! We have a his/hers situation which we love, and that is "his" bathroom, I know he would dig any fixtures that might help with more pressure in the shower. It's really a silly shower, the bathroom is built into an area where the ceiling slopes (bungalow), and the shower ceiling is low and tiled, also sort of follows the slope of the roof. Very weird, but I guess better than no shower up there, and the only way to improve that I'm assuming is to bust out the roof and do a bona fide addition. (You can see why I'm not inclined to spend money re-doing this awkward space without a real expansion.) Our inspector did mention he didn't know why they didn't expand into the crawl space for a tub, but you'd pretty much have to crawl into it at that ceiling height.

                    As to the DIY aspect.... oh lordy! That's funny. Trust me, not gonna happen, but that would make for a good comedy episode. His solution to where he thought the leaking might be was duct tape. And I am not much better, I can work with small hand tools (metalsmith), but that's about it. I do think I could learn, though, if I had time, and if there were a skilled person helping me who'd be willing to teach. Too bad I don't know anyone. Hey, where do you live... ? lol!

                    Thanks again.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Sorry I just do the pipes...
                      Sometimes I smash walls to get to the pipes...
                      I don't fix them...
                      I try to avoid that even in my own home...

                      It's out of respect for the fellow tradesman of course...
                      I leave walls and ceilings to the drywall guys and tile work to the tile guys...
                      I stayed at a Holiday Inn Express last night.
                      Now I can Plumb!

                      For great information on the history of sanitary sewers including the use of Redwood Pipe
                      Visit http://www.sewerhistory.org/
                      Did you know some Redwood Pipe is still in service today.

                      Comment

                      Working...
                      X