Need plumbing advice---

[Sunshine]

I BELIEVE MY PREVIOUS POSTING "GOT LOST" - APPARENTLY I TOOK TOO LONG TO COMPLETE THE POST. I WILL TRY AGAIN.

Before preparing this entry I did review at least twelve pages of previous entries pertaining to a plumbing problem. I found a related concern on page eight of the previous entries. It covered many of my concerns.

The entry was made on 10-3-2008 by "Special K 267" - the replies to his/her concern provided possibilities for me to consider. I believe it had also resolved Special K 267's problem.

My problem seems to stem from the fact that I have two cats sharing my home (since 1994) - and when I clean their litter boxes I put the feces into the commode to flush down the commode - I have two commodes.

Whenever the commode decided to "act up" the use of the hand plunger took care of the concern - until the next time.

On January 29, 2009 the handy hand plunger did not work, in fact, neither commode was usable. The Septic Service people came over to help.

They used an electric snake to unplug the commode - then went out to take the cover from the septic tank and asked me to flush the commode. Apparently the problem was solved.

At that time, the service man indicated he felt the problem might be the accumulation of litter within the pipes. My feelings, at that time, was that I do NOT FLUSH THE LITTER DOWN THE COMMODE. That the litter that goes into the system is the litter attached to the feces.

I honestly could not understand why the litter does not flush out of the system.

On July 27, 2009, I was once again dealing with the clogged commode - in fact - I had water all over the place until I realized that I could/should turn off the water-in valve.

The Septic Service people once again came to my home - to once again use the electric snake to unplug the commode(s). To once again suggest that I do not put the cat feces in the commode. He also suggested that once a week I put a bucket of water into each commode at the time that I flush to put an additional force of water into the system.

I asked him if there might be a product on the market that could actually break apart any accumulation of the litter? He indicated "no".

On 10-8-2008 HayZee 518 had suggested using such as a remote controlled camera in the pipe line to see what might be there?

On 10-8-2008 Special K 267 had responded - indicating the possibility of using a pressure washer.

The billing slip from the Septic Service people seems to indicate that "they" provide "video camera service" as well as "high pressure jetting". I have to wonder why neither option had been suggested to me?

I have a work person that comes to my home about every ten days to do whatever. The last time he was here 7-31-2009 - he brought along a pressure washer to wash the outside area of the home.

Would a "lay person" be able to use a pressure washer to perhaps resolve this problem???

And, for the record, since 7-27-2009 I am putting the cat's feces into a small lined step-on can. I have purchased a reasonably flat jar with vents (containing a deodorant) and had secured that to the lid of the step-on can. That seems to take care of the potential odor problem.

I would appreciate any suggestions offered.

[HayZee518]

kitty litter is a clay product. it is similar to speedie dry which absorbs oil and other hazardous wastes. It is not to be flushed down the toilet. It is to be swept up and disposed into everyday trash. clay does not break up. it clumps together and forms a ball that expands when moisture hits it.

[Sunshine]

Again - thank you for your quick response HayZee518.

How do I say this without sounding ungrateful for your response ???

I will try - I know - I know - I know - that I should NEVER put kitty litter into the commode to flush. I DID NOT!!!

My problem, if you will, was that I could not conceive how putting the feces - with the bits and pieces of kitty litter attached could have EVER led to such a problem.

So, now I have to deal with it - if indeed, that is what led to the current problem.
That is what I am trying to ascertain.

I would truly appreciate your input concerning possible resolution of the problem.

Again, again thank you for your help.

[HayZee518]

just throw it out into the trash. if it stinks too much, but it in a seal tight plastic bag.

[mrcaptainbob]

commode issue...

With the exception of toilet paper, nothing should be put into a commode connected to a septic system unless you've eaten it first! It may sound indelicate, but it is the truth. That litter, even if flushed all the way through, pressure washed out, what ever, will clog that septic tank up and that will be extremely costly! To more clearly understand your septic system, just type 'septic system' into your browser and read the cautions. The label on our box of litter says to dispose of in a 'trash receptical'.

[Sunshine]

Need Plumbing advice---

Thank you mrcamptainbob - for your input - I do understand where I went wrong 15 years ago.

However, in my defense, I am not using a clumping litter. I have - for at least 13 years been using the FRESH STEP apparently manufactured by the Clorox Company. AND, when you take the trouble (which I did not do) to read the FINE print - there is a small blurp "Dispose of used litter in the trash, not the garden, toilet, or sewage system. FLUSHING OF ANY ANY LITTER IS NOT RECOMMENDED."

I DO HAVE TO REPEAT - I HAVE BEEN FLUSHING ONLY the feces with whatever kitty litter happened to be attached down the toilet. NO MORE.

I have set up a "test" - for my own clarification - that is - I am using a 14 ounce glass jar - and have put a handy supply of the litter (about 1/3 of the jar) in the jar and have added water - to the half way area of the jar. My intent is to leave that "set awhile" - just to see what happens.

Before preparing this response - I did look at the test jar - using a knife to see is there is any indication of coagulation? It has only been two days - the set up is as I had prepared it. I will be monitoring this test.

Again, thank you - I will be back.

[Redwood]

I recommend that you pick up the feces and pick any litter that has been pressed into that feces so that none is flushed into the line....

[Sunshine]

Need Plumbing Advice---

An update for what it may be worth -

I have spent considerable time reviewing different records that were/are available to me in an attempt to see if I could get this problem resolved - at least in my own mind if no one elses.

I purchased this home as a new home in 1974 - At the time of the initial move I had two dogs - and on/about 1976 got involved in breeding and showing Golden Retrievers.

Between 1974 and 1980 I believe only I had the responsibility of picking up and disposing of any feces put down by the dogs in their running area. I am certain - that until I had an opening with a cover put on the septic tank - I would have flushed their feces via the commode.

Between March 1980 and Nov 1988 I did have one person coming in once a week to do assorted work within the kennel - the home and the yard. That person would have had access to the commode.

On 9-1980 I had written a note to the worker about putting the feces into the septic tank. (I could not find any reference as to when the cover had put on the septic tank.) No matter at least I know that the septic tank was accessible in 9-1980.

On 8-22-1984 - I had written a note to the worker that I was having a problem with the commode.

On 11-22-1984 - I had written a note to the worker that "the septic tank people were coming over to clean the tank".

Speculation only: It is highly possible that I had the cover put on the septic tank midway between 1974 and 1984 - on/about that 9-1980 note. That means the feces would have been being put directly into the septic tank since on/about 9-1980.

On 6-5-1994 - SUGAR and SPICE were found in the running area and were added to the "household". I would be using different litters trying to find one acceptable to the cats (not a clumping litter). Apparently Nov 1999 I started using the Fresh Step. NOT PUTTING THE LITTER INTO THE COMMODE, but definitely the feces removed from their litter boxes. (WHICH I AM NO LONGER DOING.)

In October 1996 my "work person" had removed a previous commode from the large bathroom because I was having problems with the back-up business. At that time - I asked him if he - when he took the removed commode to the dump site to please break it apart to see if there could be anything there causing the backup. He did NOT find anything.

The Septic System people had been here in 2006 - I don't know why - possibly to empty the septic tank. They were here again 12-17-2008 to empty the septic tank.

As noted in my original posting I have been having noticeable difficulty with that commode since January and again in July 2009.

I have made contact with the Septic Service people - sending them a copy of my earlier posting. Based upon that - I received a telephone call - they will be coming here on September 17th to use the "video camera" and if needed the "high pressure jetting" in the lines between my two commodes and the septic tank - no more than 60 feet.

My current "work person" wondered if blockage from the vent (from top of the house) might be a contributing factor??? Any ideas.

I appreciate your input.

[HayZee518]

if the "stack" has any blockage, a bird for instance, the commode(s) will back up. I had a bird in mine one day. the bird must've fallen in the 3 inch stack and the bird got lodged in the t-y fitting and somehow got trapped in the bottom of the toilet. my stack is basically a striaght vertical pipe with "things" teed off the vertical stack - toilet, 2nd floor drains, sink drain at the lowest point - before the drain takes a 90 degree left turn and onto the main line to the street sewer connection. in your case it goes to the septic tank. if you have clean outs along your line - remove the caps and take a look inside with a flash light.

[Sunshine]

Need pluming advice

Thank you HayZee518 -

My current "work person" is coming here tomorrow morning to take care of other matters. However, I will show him your response - to see if he feels he can "look into it". Again, thank you.

[pushkins]

I recommend that you pick up the feces and pick any litter that has been pressed into that feces so that none is flushed into the line....

LOL...I like that idea !!

I'm gonna throw in my two cents worth, just cause I can.

Cats process water differently than humans and even dogs for that matter, cats feces is void of most moisture hence the hard "turds" as apposed to dogs and humans. Human waste turns to a liquid very quickly once added to the toilet especially as it's flushed down the line.
This small fact added with the cat litter (even if it is just the stuff stuck to the crap) could well be collecting (obviously it is).
Just collect the feces and dispose of it in the trash and it seems your problems will go away.

Another small note.......DO NOT use a house pressure washer on your drain lines either from the toilet or the vent pipes, if you think you have problems now talk to us after pressure washing your toilet.

[Sunshine]

Need Plumbing Advice---

An update for HayZee518 - Mrcaptainbob and Redwood - since they had each volunteered a contribution to my concern.

If your refer to my posting of 8-29-2009 - I had indicated I was having a problem flushing the commode in the main bathroom as early as 8-22-1984.

That in Oct 1996 my "work person" removed the previous commode and I had asked him to please break it apart when he took it to the dump site to see if there could be anything there causing the (continuous) backups. He did NOT find anything.

O.K. back to current business.

On Sept 17, 2009 the Septic System people were here. I will record from notes I made following that visit.

At 10:50AM the truck was in the driveway. Richard and Ben went out to the septic tank first to use the video camera to penetrate the pipe from the tank to the edge of the house (that is my understanding). We could see bits and pieces of whatever along the edges of that pipe, but no blockage.

We went to the cellar to see how the pipe leads from the commodes to the edge of the house. Richard felt we could enter that area, if necessary, but we would have to cut into the pipe.

We came upstairs to talk about the commode in the main bathroom. I told Richard that I truly believe the problem lay between the bottom of the commode and that first bend in the pipe. I reminded him about replacing that commode in 1996. (and that the backup problem has persisted.)

Richard agreed to remove the commode if "they" had a replacement "tank replacement gasket" - they did.

So, Richard removed the commode and then the old gasket and then we could see an accumulation of hard guk (whatever) along one side of the pipe leading from the commode down. Richard used a scraping tool to remove much of the whatever - and put it into an accessible bucket. Later, I would put much into a heavy vinyl bag - to make a decision about later.

The hard guk (whatever) lay along side of the pipe occupying about 1/3 of the width.

Then Richard used the video camera to go down the pipe (from the commode opening) - to the cellar and it covered the pipe to the back of the house - and he indicated it was the cleanest pipe he had seen in a long time. His words "exceptionally clean".

I asked Richard if he could use the "high pressure jetting" from the opening beneath the commode to that line beneath - I had hoped he could remove the residue of the hard guk. He could not.

So, he put the new "tank replacement gasket" in place and returned the commode in place.

Then we went out to the septic tank to use the "high pressure Jetting" hose in the pipe between the septic tank and the house - to remove those bits and pieces of whatever that he had seen earlier.

Now, my only problem seems to be - to find someone - some company - that will analyze the content of the matter removed.

My parting shot, if you will, this problem existed long before my first cat came to live with me. This problem existed on/about 1984. I don't see why my "work person" (at that time) had not seen this accumulated guk when he removed the commode in 1996???

No matter, thanks for your help

[pushkins]

There really is no need to pay someone to analyze the "stuff" you have collected and saved....it is simply whatever you have sent down the line from the toilet.
You mentioned in a previous post that "both" toilets were backing up, a blockage in one at the toilet won't cause "both" to back up.