Building sofits/ extending rafters

[Umby]

Finished nailing up the vinyl fascia board and finished tacking the that small 4.5" strip to the top of the 2x6 sub-fascia. Here is shot of the West section. If you look close you can see the ends of both the sub- and the vinyl fascias. It's kind of screwed up over there. You'll see the end/false rafter is higher than all of the rest and the next one in is lower than all of the rest! So the difference between just those two is significant (ugly). I think if I do that triange mentioned earlier, things will look better (before they are completely covered up anyways).



Here is the Eastern section. I used the vinyl fascia on the outside of the last/false rafter so you can't see the sub-fascia. Lots of donkey-kicks because of fading light and persistent mosquitoes. I believe I am now ready for the drip-edge and shingles (after one month of doing this!).

[mrcaptainbob]

That looks great, Umby! I was wondering how you were fairing with this. I was in Warren last Saturday, in between raindrops. Most of the day was good, though. You've been lucky with the weather. Hope it holds out a bit longer for you. Good progress.....

[Umby]

Thanks Cap'n! I'm moving again and actually made decent progress on Sunday (8/21). (My wife says if it takes more than six weeks, it's not a project, it's a hobby...)
I nailed up the drip-edge on all three sides and by the end of the day I shingled all the way up to the old shingles (about 9 courses, 14' wide), but I did not nail the last course in yet. I have shingled roofs before, but only about once every ten years; so I had to think long and hard about how to do this! I also forgot how easy it is to nail them, but cutting, carrying, hoisting, etc. is very tiring. This morning, I felt like I had played rugby. I'll post the pix of the drip edges and the unfinshed roof (as of 5 courses), but I'll end with my newest problem, and hence I need your advice again.

These first pix are of our famous end rafters with their drip-edges. This first one is the western most rafter. You'll see I reused the old drip-edge on the right side of the image running up the roof. This drip-edge used to be the one I (inadvisedly) pounded on to rid myself of ice dams. Because my new drip-edge does not have the same profile as my old ones, I had to use this old piece to mate-up with the old existing drip-edge coming down the gable. Wasn't sure how to join them in the corner, so I got a little creative... It worked out ok.

Then the eastern most rafter.

And from above (These side drip-edges have a lot more nails in them later on from the shingles) Note the mess up at the top of the image; stay tuned.

Here's the roof after five course. If you look closely, just underneath the gray tarp, you'll see the old shingles that I am advancing towards. Then if you look at the right side of the roof deck, you'll see that vertically, I lined the new shingles up with old ones, wich was easy to do. But horizontally, things won't be that nice. This was expected even before I got into this hobby.

Now here's one of the few problems I am running into:

As you can see, I have come up almost 50% out of alignment with the existing shingles. And there are no less then six layers of existing shingles in that valley at the top of the last image. Farther up the roof, this layer count drops to four.
Should I:
1. Go under ALL the existing shingles with the new ones (very ugly)
2. Go under ONLY the top layer of existing shingles (bumpy ugly)
3. Or both, i.e. put up multiple layers.
I am tempted to go with option #3. It was only three bundles to finish the first layer. And I now know exactly what my offset dimensions are. This would mean I would finish nailing down the final course at the top and at the edges, underneath all of the existing shingles. Then, starting at the bottom of the roof with the second layer; cut the first course of shingles almost in half *horizontally*, and advance on up placing the new ones under the first layer of old ones. Whatchya think?

[mrcaptainbob]

The parting of the ways.....you're no going to like me or this....(#4) I'd take it all off on both sides of that valley right up to the ridge. My reasoning(s): appearance, too many layers already, a chance to lay in the proper icedam in that valley, more work than money at this point. THe roof on the other side of the ridge doesn't have to 'blend' with this side. Not right away, anyway. Too much great work (and time) invested to not go the rest.

[Umby]

I agree with you, that would be the right thing to do. But remember: this is a patch job. To do a full tear-off and re-shingle of those two decks is not something I have the time to do or the money to have done; especially with the historically rainy month of Sep. coming up. Well before going into to this I knew there would be an asthetics issue with the blending of the shingles. I knew it and the only other person in the world who can see it, my neighbor, knew it. The second picture up in this thread of the whole work area was taken from in his yard near the top of an 8-ft step ladder. I.e the pitch of that roof makes this project area hard to see. And let's face it, four to seven layers of shingles, bad sheathing, lack of ice barriers elsewhere, etc.; the whole roof needs to be done anyway. This is only a temporary fix for what was the worst ice dam on the entire roof, one of at least three. Sorry Cap'n, respectfully sir, option #4 is a non-starter for me!

[mrcaptainbob]

Been to that movie more than once, Umby. For a 'patch' job, you're doin' really well. It's going to be that much less work when you get time/money for the rest. The best part is that you're building knowledge on that part of the house that has minimum eyeball exposure. Will serve you well on the other parts. Good pics, too. (4 to 7 layers?!!!! What were they thinkin'?)

[Umby]

I don't think they were thinking at all.
The back section of the house was built very cheaply. The windows which are newer than the front section are one notch above worthless. The floors are very "spongy" and every door frame has modest crack emanating from it. (the list goes on) So I wasn't a bit surprised to find what I did on the roof. And yes this has been a learning experience which is why I chose that part of the roof to work on first. And my neighbor, who is quite handy, has helped me in a few spots by just leaning over the fence.
Well I'm going to go up with another layer, hopefully this weekend, and get back to you. Thanks again.

[Umby]

The first layer of shingles is done and the tarps are finally gone. After shooting the pic below, I tarred some cracked shingles above the project area and then layed 3 courses of the second layer. I cut first course in half in attempt for later alignment with existing shingles. We'll see how well it works!

[mrcaptainbob]

That's lookin' good, Umby. How far under the old shingles did you manage to set the new? You're going to get a good rain check when the remains of Katrina comes our way in a few days! So what's left? The siding boards go back on and then the soffit panels?

[mrcaptainbob]

How'd the soffits come out, Umby?

[Umby]

I have to finish the second layer of shingles, and I have been side-tracked all over the place. We have working some tree trimming guys to bring down this huge and threating ash tree in our back yard. We really need to get these trees down because one fell on its own about a year ago and took out (luckily) only a fence. I will get back to you when I get back on track. I will need help with the soffits, thanks.

[Umby]

Finally got back to it!
Put another 8 hours in on Tues., beautiful day. The shingles are done (3 weeks ago), two layers, and not surprisingly, not matching...
Yesterday, I tacked back up the highest/top course of existing AL-siding. I then level-measured back across from the bottom of the sub-facia to the surface of the siding at both ends and snapped a chalk line. I cut up and tacked up a 2x4 nailer whose bottom was flush with this line. But here was the big problem of the day: Not only could I not get the 3.25" framing nails to go into anything after passing through the 2x4, but in the end, I never used the nailer for anything! It was a waste $5 (2 eight footers @2.50 each). Actually about three of the 15 or so nails hit something and stuck, but none of it mattered in the end. The idea for the nailer was to have something solid for the J-channels to be nailed to (they were to be tacked up horizontally to receive the soffit panels). But stem of the 5/8" J-channels were too long, and I had to nail them directly to the siding through the bottom of the 'J'. And of course these nails didn't bite into any wood either. However, because they were ringshank, they grabbed the channel and siding very well and won't be really loaded in the end. I then tacked up an opposing J-channel to the base of the sub-facia and cut and snapped into place 16, 1'x21" fully vented soffit panels (with a 2"x21" at the end). I know I didn't need the J-channel under the facia, I could have used the final facia trim piece to do this, but I didn't have time, nor do I have any idea on how to finish off the outer trim to this project. So before the hibernating wildlife found my wide open rafters and soffits, I thought I'd just close them off for now and trim over the unnecessary J-channels later. I'll send pics and draw up what my newest issues are.

[mrcaptainbob]

That really sounds good, Umby. Yes, too bad about the 2x4's. As well as that J channel. THe F molding works perfect in that situation, as you're nailing on the 'leg' of the 'F' and the of coarse, the soffit panels slide into the F bars. But...it's all good...what you did will work fine, as the soffit sill keep the J from pulling away from the wall, while the nails keep it all from moving horizontally. Did you get the craft winterized? Always a mixed emotions time for me. As much as I enjoy the cider, punkin' pies and sunny days showing off the great colors, it's sad to have to haul the craft and bed it down for six months.

[Umby]

I don't actually own the boat, it's a Thomas 35 (foot) sailboat, I just crew on it. We have one race left this year and I don't think I'll be making that either. I too am torn as to go sailing or color touring. But the yard work is creeping in as well as the roof...

Here are some shots taken last night, just after I got home, and just before I lost sunlight.


Here is the last layer of shingles. Notice how the last course of shingles (farthest up the roof), does not offset with the existing (darker) shingles. They did on the first layer, but when I layed the second layer I offset with the first layer and cause this perfect matching. Ah, the things you learn... Note also the half of course I layed at the edge of the roof in order to match horizontally with the existing shingles. None of this matching or lack thereof is visible from my neighbor's view point. The black blotches off on the left are damaged shingles that I have tarred over.


This is the view under the new soffits. Note that the existing top course of siding has been put back up and you might notice the end of the 'ornamental' 2x4. I also had to cut into that corner piece.


Here is the view of the west end of the soffits. I've got a couple issues here as to what to do next. First, I believe I want to close this off BEFORE I trim over it, but I don't have any room to even tack in a half inch of plywood. Second, I don't know if I want to continue the fascia trim down from the upper right to the lower left or make just one big triangle out of trim and slap it on. Do I make sense?


And here is the east end of the soffits. The same problem with closing it off, but as for trimming over, this will be just one big triangle.
Do you see any issue with NOT closing off these ends before trimming over?

[mrcaptainbob]

Looks really good, Umby. Especially lining up the shingle breaks as you did. Wavy tabs going horizontal aren't as noticeable from the ground as are the vertical breaks being chalkline straight. THe ornamentals are going to be a real asset when you sell the place. The new owners will really like them!! Yeah, I'd just go with capping the ends with a flat trim triangle piece. Will close it off and look good, too. Shape that triangle so it'll slip under the gable facia trim by maybe an inch or so. Same with that corner molding. Slip it underneath that piece, too. Trim that vertical straight so it looks like it's supposed to be that way, and you're good to go, Umby. Sounds like you get the best of both worlds by crewin' on the boat, but avoiding the hassle's of upkeep! We've been managing great fall weather for the outdoor projects in this past week. I think it's coming to a halt this Saturday with a forecast of 49 for a high. You'll be finishing up on this project in the nick!