torsion spring "upsizing" or "high cycle" vs normal springs

[wrench]

our present (busted) spring is 2 ID x .250 X RHW x 32 long. gave the weight and dimensions of our rollup in my last post, a few minutes ago. I'm interested in finding out how a guy would calculate what spring wire size by what length spring he would need to arrive at any given spring lifetime rating of such-and-such a given number of cycles.

I understand that'd have something to do with 'using a constant' and 'finding your IPPT' <tried, but wasn't allowed to post link here> as outlined on this fairly baffling site. (missing link is nested inside "somewhere like" diy garage repair com). anyway, I've read and re-read it, but it's still baffling....and can't find a more clear explanation anywhere...

guess what I'm asking is is there some sort of 'calculator' online where i can "plug in my givens" and have it spit out various spring, or spring "combinations" (eg: for dual springs) I could use to achieve various spring-cycle lifetimes? or, barring that, how DOES a guy do it "on paper", any dern how?

it's -also- my understanding so-called 'high cycle' or 'extended life' springs are just springs with a different number of turns, different spring wire gauges, and/or perhaps of a different length, or "some combination" of the three
as opposed to
their being some sort of "better grade of tempering" perhaps used on a superior grade of steel?

all clarifications appreciated - I always like to learn

*thanks* for your help guys

[gdoorpro]

spring life cycles

The easy way to do it would be to purchase an application on your ipod from Service Spring co. you can plug in all the measurements,
1. Wire diameter in inches
2. Inside coil diameter (usually listed on plug, but most common on residential doors is 1&3/4" aka 175 on the plug, and 2" or 200 on plug.
3. Length of spring, just the wire, not including the plugs.

Their is as of yet no site online that can tell you how to do it. and the Service spring co. app is not as good as it could be when trying to calculate life cycles. For that it is best to have a chart with ratings for springs with different total turns put on the spring. For example a 7' tall door usually requires 7.6 turns, while an 8' tall door requires 8.5.

This all goes out the window if you have a easy torque spring system from Wayne Dalton or other crappy manufacturer. Enough of my bias though, it is rooted in fact.

If you have a 32" long spring, with a 2' ID (Inside Diameter), and .250" Wire diameter, this spring on a 7' tall door would last approx. 15,000 cylces.
If you moved up a step in wire size, you would need a 40" x 2"ID x .262" spring, this spring would last approx. 30,000 cycles.

I am going by memory here, so if you would like further calculations let me know.

Things to consider before upgrading spring life cycles. (because depending on whom you buy from, it may cost a lot more money)

1. How good of door do you have? is it going to last a long time.
2. The springs you have should be at least 10,000 cycles, but may be less, this last most people 3 years if they open it 10 times a day. How long do they need to work.
3. Would you consider using the front door more often, the front doors handle is usually rated at 200,000 cycles and up.


let me know if i missed anything.

[wrench]

The easy way to do it would be to purchase an application on your ipod from Service Spring co.

yeah, thanks, I saw that online too. "only the wife" has an iphone. mines's an "antique" LG Voyager...unclear if that app would run on my desktop PC. uhh, some company named sarotech seems to also offer garage door spring software, but it's in the 3 to 400 smacker range.

Their is as of yet no site online that can tell you how to do it.

unfortunate, seems like a "no brainer" for some sort of php programmer

For that it is best to have a chart with ratings for springs with different total turns put on the spring.

yeah, even images posted of some 'spring rate book' pages would help, for diehard DIY guys like ol' bubba here.

For example a 7' tall door usually requires 7.6 turns, while an 8' tall door requires 8.5.

thank you for the valued info, sir. ya know, I've been thinking about it (some more, I'm afraid): even though our house has seemed like "lousy construction, pretty much in all respects" I suppose
it's still possible that
the busted spring on our door now was already "oversized" or of some better quality than a more common "cost cutter" type one that could've just as easily have been installed originally. reason i say that: it's lasted ten years (since we bought the house new) and I go in and out thru that rollup garage door 10 to 15 times a day...*also* though, I'm still trying to figure out a way to 'check on things' and find out if that spring 'fits' with what size spring would've, or should've been "called for" for our door...or, like maybe "I'm getting a little overly-involved in the engineering end", which I've also heard in the past...a few decades back

This all goes out the window if you have a easy torque spring system from Wayne Dalton or other crappy manufacturer.

our door's torsion spring setup is the 'conventional' type, one long straight tube, center braced and bearinged, two wind drums, one on each end, one single torsion spring (still wondering if 'upsizing' the coils (wire gauge size) or 'lengthening' from our existing sized spring would offer any benefit)

Enough of my bias though, it is rooted in fact.

he he, I hear ya

If you have a 32" long spring, with a 2' ID (Inside Diameter), and .250" Wire diameter, this spring on a 7' tall door would last approx. 15,000 cycles.

If you moved up a step in wire size, you would need a 40" x 2"ID x .262" spring, this spring would last approx. 30,000 cycles.

thanks for this *extremely* valuable information - I certainly appreciate all your help here.

I am going by memory here, so if you would like further calculations let me know.

welp, how good is your memory? if it's good as mine, and you put down a wrench and turn around, then look back 10 minutes later, never having left the room, you have what i call "a hide and seek routine" on your hands...but, so the 40x2x.262@30,000 is accurate? is there even a 'further upgrade up' after that one, for like for 40K cycles? "I'm all ears"

Things to consider before upgrading spring life cycles. (because depending on whom you buy from, it may cost a lot more money)
1. How good of door do you have? is it going to last a long time.

well, who really knows? it's been OK so far, no rust-through, no surface rust. very few if any dents. unknown brand name, we never met the original installer and have no idea who it is, was, or might've been.

2. The springs you have should be at least 10,000 cycles, but may be less, this last most people 3 years if they open it 10 times a day. How long do they need to work?

well, at 62 climbing ladders and working with tools is still quite doable, and I still own them all (and a 1500 sq foot warehouse full of machines and other hardware-type stuff , too) *however* physical efforts "ain't gettin' any easier"

3. Would you consider using the front door more often, the front doors handle is usually rated at 200,000 cycles and up.

ain't gonna happen - the front door of our house (essentially) "gets me nowhere"

let me know if i missed anything.

thanks again for your kind help, sir

[gdoorpro]

Ive done some math, If you use the 40 x 2 x262 springs you have 25.000 cycle springs
48.5" x 2" .273" you have 43,000 cycles
57.5" x 2" x .283" you have 70,000 cycles
and you could also change the inside diameter to get even longer life springs

[mb123452010]

free online high cycle garage door spring calculator

Here is an online http://www.prodoorsupply.com/Build_Y...prings_s/8.htm (calculator is on the right). It is simple but will cover most if not all residential garage door torsion springs out there. Simply fill in the boxes and it will give you 5 viable options for high cycle springs. I wrote this in response to the "no one has a web based calculator yet". http://www.prodoorsupply.com/