Clopay Buckling in each door panel

[Rpttrsn]

I have a Clopay door (single door) that is 2 yrs. old. I just noticed a crease or buckling in each panel up to 2 inches wide. Even in the top panel with the glass windows. The installer came to look and they said that the door must have been hit. These creases are on the inside only. I am sure that the door was not hit and feel that they don't want to repair/replace the door. Any advice on what I could look for. The door seems to move freely when not attached to the opener. I am not allowed to post a pic. since I am new to this Forum.
Thanks
Ron

[Rpttrsn]

The installer has been in touch with me again and has asked me to send him photos of the door both on the inside and outside (no marks on outside). My neighbors door has the same buckling as mine in the same place and has also asked for photos of their door. I hope this goes someplace. The door is two years old. Still looking for any ideas on a cause.
Thanks,
Ron

[jeffkellen]

door buckling

Hello Ron!

is the creasing in the middle of the door panels?
is it only on the top 1 or 2 sections?

My experience is that 95% of the time when a door panel (especially the top panel) is being creased in half it is because the garage door opener has been installed too high above the door. What happens when the rail is too high above the door, is that all the force is directed downward (toward the ground) when the door closes, and the "j-arm" that is attached to the door focuses all that force in the middle of the panel. if the rail is installed properly, and close to the door, then the J-arm pushes the panel toward the header instead of the ground when it closes. This is how it is designed to run- with the force along the strength of the panel.

To check this, open your door about 8 inches or so to the point where the top panel just gets through the curve of the tracks. (this is the hightes point of the garage door's travel) at this point, the garage door opener's rail should be about 1" above the door. ( my guess is that your rail is about 6 inches above the door at this point)

now open the door all the way. go back to the top panel and see how far the rail sits above the door when it is laid flat in the open position. Again, about 1" above the panel is what your looking for.

The first openers I ever installed, I installed about 8" too high. I had to go back the the customer's house after about 2 weeks because the top sections of both doors were creasing. An old experienced installer went with me and showed me what I did wrong. It made sense and I have never done it since, but I see it ALL THE TIME. The install manuals dont address this problem, but it ruin your door 100% of the time.

Check your openers (hopefully you have them, or this has all been for nothing ) I have been involved in battles like this with other garage door installers- it's physics and you cant argue physics. Another thing, although they may not have installed the openers originally, if they reconnected a garage door opener that was mounted too high (because they were too lazy or tired to move it down) then it still is THEIR fault. dont let them hassle you on it. Let me know if you have any other questions or info.

one more thing. if your door is steel, the top panels should have a metal "Strut" that runs across the whole panel to add stregth. Many doors dont have them there when they are installed- although they should (mostly to save money) but it is definitely required once a garage door opener is connected to the door. make sure you and your neighbor have struts on your doors.

Hope this helps! Good luck!

Jeff

[Rpttrsn]

Jeff,
Thanks for responding to my issue. Each panel has the crease in them. Tomorrow I will check the dimensions you have listed.
Ron

[jeffkellen]

hmmm. Usually the damage is isolated to the top 2 panels or so if it is a problem with the openers. Still confirm the placement of your openers however. In order for all panels to have creases, something has to have placed some kind of force directly at or into the panels. The most common thing I can think of that would do this (besides cars driving in to them ) is strong winds. The only problem with that theory however, is that I think the creases usually form on the outside since the door bows inward. I dont know if that rules out wind though, I suppose it could also cause damage to the inside as well.... If the door was hit by a vehicle, it would be fairly obvious, and the damage wouldnt go as far as the top panel- I wouldnt accept that allegation from the door company. The only other thing I can think of is that they were damaged before they were installed. This happens a lot in shipping or transport. Many of the doors get thrown around in stacks, get walked on and dropped before they even leave the warehouse. Do the creases "line up" from panel to panel? if the door was damaged after the install, the damage should all be relatively "in line". if the damage on each panel is in different locations, that might indicate it was damaged before it was installed and before the panels were all hinged together.

That is about is I can think of without seeing the door. If you want to send me pics you can email them to me at jeffkellen3@yahoo.com maybe I can see something else that might clue us in......also might end up being a mystery.

[jeffkellen]

Hello Ron, Thanks for the pics!

WOW. I have to be honest, If I was the installer that went back to look at this door, my conclusion would be that something (a vehicle) backed into these doors- unless these creases were present when they installed the door 2 years ago. If they were not there at the time of install, I am afraid you are going to have a hard time getting warranty coverage. If it were my company I would not cover it.

The problem is, the creases line up between panels which tends to indicate they were all made at the same time, from the same point of pressure. The creases I talked about being a result of the improper opener do not extend the entire height of the door- but are isolated to the top panel. The fact that the creases are on the bottom of the door as well means at some point, a large amount of force was applied directly into the door, and at a point near the bottom. THIS IS THE ONLY WAY THOSE CREASES CAN BE FORMED LIKE THAT. The question then becomes, "what was causing that force?".

Unfortunately for your case, there is no way to improperly install a door or opener that would create that kind of damage. Plus the fact that this is a single car garage door (probably 8 feet wide) means that it is inherently a stronger panel to begin with- demanding more force than normal to damage the door in that manner. You would not be able to push against it with your hands and create the same damage even if you wanted to. If the door was 18 feet wide, it would take less force to crease those panels. (think of trying to break a branch over your knee. the branch that is 6 feet long will break much easier than the branch that is 1 foot long) This means that natural forces like wind, for example are an unlikely cause. Plus the creases are such, that it is obvious that the door flexed "outward"- there is no arguing that fact. if the door flexed "inward" the creases would be on the outside of the door. To illustrate this, take a piece of cardboard and bend it toward you. you will see the same creases being formed on the inside, while the outside of the cardboard remains relatively unchanged (because its being stretched instead of crumpled on that side)

Therefore, something applied a large amount of force, after the door was installed, from the inside of the garage, to the lower part of the door. Unfortunately, any jury in the world would find it easy to believe that the likely cause is: a vehicle that slowly rolled back into the door- slow enough that it didnt puncture or dent the door from the impact. considering the car would be going from a stopped position to a speed less that 1 mph as you back out of a garage, it all sort of adds up.

I wish I had better news for you Ron. It's odd that your neighbor has the same problem, but possible he has the same cause. Check again with your wives or teenage kids They are usually the culprit- though they will never admit it.

There is no way to prove exactly what happened to the doors. However it is going to be fairly easy to rule out improper installation or product defect as the cause of the damage. That being said, if it were me, and I honestly KNOW that no one could have backed a car into these doors, then I would in good conscience, continue to insist that the garage door company help out with fixing the problem. It's probably going to be a fight however- get ready.

That's my professional opinion- not what you wanted to hear I am sure, but the evidence pretty much makes it's own case. I hope you are able to work some deal out with your garage door company and hope I was able to help in any way. The good news is, that the damage is going to be pretty much cosmetic only. the doors should still function properly for years to come, and there is no real danger of them collapsing or anything like that. It will most likely be just an annoying thing you have to look at when you enter the garage- but at least you cant see it from the street! Nice garage doors by the way, I love those carriage house style doors. If you have any other questions feel free to contact me. I would be glad to help.

-Jeff

[Rpttrsn]

Thanks Jeff for your help. If any wives are reading this they could be quite mad at you.
When we, both my wife and I, leave the garage we open the doors from the platform inside of the house then go down a few steps to the garage floor.
I can see why you have reached the conclusion that you did. The door works fine and yes it is cosmetic. After 40+ years of being married I kind of know if she is telling the truth or not. It's her side of the garage. Hum! She swears that she never hit the garage and I believe her. (that's why we are still married I guess). If the mfg. feels the same way I guess I will not push it. I still don't think the car ever hit it but I can't prove that either.
Again thanks for taking the time to answer this post.

[mrcaptainbob]

Garage door crease...

I'd shut that door with the car inside and take a look at where 'things' line up....both cars.

[Rpttrsn]

mrcaptainbob,
Since only one car has been parked on that side and the crease runs up to the left of each hinge. The creases are the same on all three lower panels. There are no spots deeper then another. There is also a crease on the glass panel on the top. The furthest spot on the bumper would hid in the center of the door. Still don't believe it was the car. Have not heard from the mfg. yet but I think they will say it was hit.

[mrcaptainbob]

Door creases....

I would certainly take pictures of it. And of the car in proximity to those creases. Lessens the chance for argument or insinuations....make it well lit to display the creases. Shadows in this case can be a good friend....

[stampdoorparts]

If a car hit the door the creases would be near the bottom or middle of the garage door. If the creases are on top its the material failing.

Make sure you have an operator bracket and strut on the top section - and strut on all panels that are bending.

I would also check your springs. If they are not installed correctly the opener will "pull" the door instead of letting the springs do most of the work.

Mike
Stamps Garage Doors
Garage Door Parts

[Rpttrsn]

Last week Clopay replaced my door and my next door neighbors as she had the exact same marks in her door as well. Thanks to the installer who worked on my behalf.