Water leak through basement wall

[dkyn31]

When it rains heavily (ground water I'm assuming) travels underneath the main water pipe into our house and cascades down into the void of our concrete block wall and then flows through the block on to the basement floor. The pipe enters the house about eight feet below the ground. There is a void all around the pipe, so big I can reach my hand into it. Is there any acceptable way to fix this from the inside? The rest of the basement is finished and dry. This has only happened once before, two years ago after prolonged heavy rains, but this year it has happened twice since it has been a rainy May. When it happened two years ago we regraded, redid our front steps and thought we fixed it. Any help or advice is appreciated.

[HayZee518]

Ideally you should patch up the hole from the outside to keep water from filling the block cell(s). Although fixing the hole from the inside , may buy you some time having that outside hole will create problems. hydraulic cement when it cures expands and is sure to plug a hole. it even cures under water when mixed with water. yeah it seems not feasible, a product that's mixed with water actually hardens "under water." but it does!

[dkyn31]

Water Leak through basement wall

I can't get a contractor to agree to dig up from the outside- too deep, too close to the stoop and retaining wall. Several basement companies have come by and all want to sell us an internal drain and sump pump, but its doesn't seem to make sense to me to jack up the floor and drill holes in perfectly dry walls (with the exception of the hole that leaks during heavy rains). A structural engineer recommend I fix the hole from the inside with something called water plug? Ever heard of it? Thanks

[buckofdurham]

[quote=dkyn31;26091]When it rains heavily (ground water I'm assuming) travels underneath the main water pipe into our house and cascades down into the void of our concrete block wall and then flows through the block on to the basement floor.

OBVIOUSLY THE BEST WAY TO FIX IT WOULD BE TO WATERPROOF THE OUTSIDE OF THE WALL.
THEY DO HOWEVER MAKE A PLASTIC FRENCH DRAIN THAT HAS TO BE CUT IN THE FLOOR. ALL AROUND THE EDGE UNTIL YOU CAN GET TO A DRAIN. IF YOU DON'T HAVE A DRAIN WHERE THE WATER WILL FLOW OUT WITH GRAVITY THEN YOU WOULD NEED TO INSTALL A SUMP PUMP.
THIS PLASTIC FRENCH DRAIN HAS A LIP THAT GOES UP THE WALL A LIITLE WAY. BUT IT WILL ALLOW WATER TO FLOW BETWEEN IT AND THE WALL. IT ALSO A HAS A COVER ON IT. SO ANY WATER IN IT WOULD BE AWAY FROM THE INSIDE ENVIROMENT.
THERE ARE OTHER RESINS AND EPOXYS THAT YOU COULD TRY PATCHING THE HOLE.
Good Luck AND regards

[buckofdurham]

I think it is called plug crete
Probably the same as hydralic concrete
Push it in the hole as far back as you can get it around the pipe.

[LazyPup]

The Plumbing Codes require that all pipes passing through concrete, cement or other masonry material must be sleeved. Under no circumstances may the concrete, cement or masonry material be in direct contact with a pipe.

To install a sleeve you first install a section of pipe with a diameter at least two nominal trade sizes larger than the desired pipe and extending at least 2 inches on either side of the masonry wall. The sleeve may be sealed to the masonry by any convenient means, cast in the concrete, cement, tar base materials, expansion foam, etc.

After the sleeve is installed the desired pipe is then passed through the sleeve and the remaining space between the exterior pipe wall of the desired pipe and interior wall of the sleeve is to be sealed with expansion foam.

In this case the pipe is already installed through an over sized hole in the block wall so it would be rather difficult to install a sleeve unless you were to turn the water off at the curb stop then disconnect the pipe at the main shutoff and slide a sleeve over the pipe.

The post says that the point of entry is 8' below grade so I am assuming it is very close to the floor level in the basement.

Digging a hole 8 feet deep would not be advisable for a number of reasons.

1. In order to have clearance to work on the pipe in the hole you would need to dig down at least 9' and once the hole was dug there would be a very high risk the side of the hole caving in and burying the individual working in the hole. This would never be a wise idea.

2.You already have a problem with ground water getting in the hole in the wall. If you were to dig down to the hole, the resultant backfill would be semi porous for a considerable time until it settles completely. This could effectively increase the problem by letting more surface water get down to the hole in the wall.

I see a fairly simple solution.

The hole in the wall is most likely only a foot or two above the floor level.
I would reach through the hole as best I could and dig out a bit of the dirt around the pipe on the outside of the wall, leaving a hollow depression on the outside of the wall slightly larger in diameter than the hole itself. The excess dirt you dig out can be dropped down the cavity in the block.

I would then pour sand in the cavity of the block wall until the cavity is full to a point just slightly below the opening in the wall.

I would then get 3 or 4 cans of expansion foam, a wooden dowel about 2' long and a roll of electrical tape. i would then tape the discharge end of one of the expansion foam delivery tubes on the end of the dowel and use the dowel to guide the foam tube through the wall and on to the exterior on the outside of the wall. Fill that exterior cavity with the foam, then work back from the exterior side to the inside completely filling the hole with the foam. As the foam expands on the exterior of the hole it will mushroom about the outside of the blocks in the cavity we first dug, leaving a rivet head effect on the outside of the wall and as the foam expands in the wall it will completely fill the void around the pipe and most likely expand upwards slightly in the block cavity to help lock it all in place. As the foam continues to expand it will expand outwards on the interior side of the wall, but that can later be cut off flush with the wall to present a neat appearance.

[dkyn31]

Thanks for the solution and drawings. I was trying to figure out how to get foam all the way back there. After we plug up the hole, we need to put drainage holes in the retaining walls that butt up against the house to stop the dam effect which is making the water pool up against the foundation in the first place.

[LazyPup]

My local Plumbing supply house carries some larger cans of spray foam that come with a flexible discharge hose attached but I just remembered that most of the cans you can buy in a hardware or home supply have a rigid reed type tube.

I would suggest that if you have to buy the cans with a rigid tube you should also get about 2' of an inexpensive vinyl hose that will just slip over the tube on the can.

I am attaching an illustration on how to use the wood dowel to reach the foam hose through the block to get it on the outside of the wall and insure you can fill the entire block cavity.

[cookie]

water pipe leaking/basement wall

I was trying to understand about fixing this problem, and I know it seems the best way is to fix from the OUTSIDE, but can someone tell me how this can be done without excavating the whole yard. As we speak I have continuous water drooling down my wall from a small space between the sleeve of the main water pipe and the concrete wall in my basement. This has been going on for years off and on. Since I do not know where the rest of this pipe is (except buried under my lawn outside the front of my townhouse), how does one fix it from "the outside", without thousands of dollars of work and much excavation? How do you even diagnose where exactly the problem lies?
I would get a plumbing contractor, or wet basement contractor but it'd be a shot in the dark, & I don't know if either of them get into digging out your yards. Please help - this situation is driving me crazy - I have towels stuffed around the pipe, all day changing them out for dry towels when they become soaked. Thanks for any help.

[HayZee518]

use the maximum foaming canned insulation. the newer urethanes cure when moisture hits them.

[cookie]

HayZee 518 - thanks for your reply. Two things: first - this is the "band-aid" solution, but it doesn't diagnose where the problem is that's causing the leak to happen, and second: the space between the sleeve of the pipe and where the concrete wall begins is only about 1/8" of an inch. The "straw" that the foam feeds through that you're talking about, doesn't even fit into this gap. I think I'd have to drill a larger gap into the concrete ..... drilling into concrete is really really difficult. (I recently tried drilling a couple of small holes into my basement wall to hang something, and it was near impossible, even with the right drill bit - (someone told me to rent an "impact drill" (about $220).
Anyway, I guess I'm trying to get at the root of the problem because the problem lies obviously buried underground, and like I say, I can't see any way of finding the cause without digging up the whole yard - and who does this type of work anyway? Even digging up the whole yard may not be the answer - the answer lies buried inside the large slab of concrete wall - a crack through it or something. If I don't fix it from the root cause, I see much worse problems down the road with my foundations. Any more thoughts?
Any suggestions on how to get the hole bigger in the concrete wall so that if foam sealant has to be done, how do I get that hole bigger, or who does that type of work? Thanks!!!

[cookie]

well, the eurythane foam does work I realize, but it's a band-aid, (as you had mentioned in an earlier post), not a diagnostic of why the leak is happening - I just would like to know HOW one finds the root cause without excavating the whole yard. Also, the space that's between the water pipe sleeve and the concrete is only very very tiny, like 1/8 of an inch, so the "straw" wouldn't fit into the gap to fill it with the foam filler. I'd have to create a much larger hole in the concrete in order to adequately fill back into the hole far enough, and drilling concrete is something that's just for the professionals - and who would do this? Not a plumber I'm sure. (I tried drilling a couple of small holes to hang something in my concrete wall several weeks ago & it was useless, after 20 min of drilling (with the right drill bit), I made a small dent in the wall - I gave up. So, to make a space big enough to fit that foam straw through would be a mammoth undertaking (I think I'd need an impact drill or something).
Maybe you could suggest who I could turn to? I'm a woman living on my own (+ female renter), so - no handymen around..

[pushkins]

Just my two cents worth but DON'T try drilling around the water pipe to make a larger hole, this thought process is flawed in so many ways I don't know where to begin.
Usually the holes are sealed with a liquid rubber product that is applied at the same time the pipe is fitted, usually the hole is much larger than only 1/8" bigger than the pipe.

Water is opportunistic and lazy, it looks for the path of least resistance to travel, thus on the exterior, water wants to travel the area right up against the basement wall as it travels downward (towards the perimeter drain) pressure builds, as this happens the water is pushed into any and all holes.

The only way to "really" fix the problem is to dig down on the exterior side and seal the hole from the outside, stopping the water from coming in is the real solution rather than stopping it once it is in.

As a footnote, when drilling concrete not only do you have to use a masonry drill bit you need to use a drill that has a "hammer drill" setting, most drills nowadays have this setting, even on cheapy's.

[cookie]

Pushkins - thanks for your reply - all that you have said, is basically what I know to be true. However, you mentioned the hole being "much" bigger than the pipe. The water pipe is approximately 3", then there's a sleeve gap that the pipe "sits in", and that measureas maybe 5" in diameter, then that sleeve is tight to the concrete wall - no gaps EXCEPT for this little sliver underneath in the concrete where concrete meets sleeve that the water gets in. That "liquid rubber" seal your talking about (the part that shows on the cement wall), has dried somewhat and cracked over the years, and it's where this meets the concrete that the leak comes in.
So, from what you're saying - I would HAVE to excavate my yard, and dig down about 4 feet ore more to come to the water pipe - and then seal around the place where the pipe enters the concrete foundation? That's what I've been dreading - I have a planting bed there, with azaleas, large holly bush etc - would then the whole thing have to be dug up, and again, I ask - who is the person that does this type of work....a structural engineer?
Also, my thread said that I knew if I was drilling into concrete then I'd have to get an "impact drill". And I DID use a masonry bit, but my drill doesn't have the "hammer setting".
Thanks for taking the time to reply - but I still have a couple of unanswered questions ?

[pushkins]

The 5" sleeve is correct for a 3" pipe, the difference allows for the pipe not to be cut or worn. Like I mentioned the "correct" way to seal reseal the area would be to do it from the exterior, however this is not always the easiest option. Seal the area on the inside with either expanding foam ( I believe you said you already did this, so I'm not sure what any of this conversation is going to achieve) or liquid rubber sealant.
As for your comment about the drill.....I did read that you said you'd have to get one, but you didn't get one....my comment was to tell you it's almost impossible to drill concrete with a standard drill, EVEN with a masonry bit.
As far as who does the work.....Foundation companies would do it....most plumbers.....some contractors, there really would not be any need of an engineer, an engineer is just going to contract the work out (that's if they even if they take the job) and they will charge you for that service.