Refrigerator tripping GFI

[tiggers]

Glad to see your fridge is up and running. How did you resolve the issue of the overload and start relay? I saw two wires on one of the components and I know most set ups only have two wires total.

Take a look at Dan O's attachment in post #17. Mine was similar, except upside down (two pins at top, one for overload at bottom). There was enough friction on the pins for the relay and overload to connect and stay on all by themselves. The two wires from the little black brick was the capacitor. The relay had three terminals on the back. Two for the capacitor wires, one for the power lead. The numbers on the new relay corresponded to the original wiring diagram, so wasn't to hard to figure out.

[hawkins111]

overload and start relay

Tiggers,

Glad to see your fridge is up and running. How did you resolve the issue of the overload and start relay? I saw two wires on one of the components and I know most set ups only have two wires total.

Tom

[Dan O.]

Fixed

Glad to hear you seem to have found the problem. Thanks for the follow up.

Dan O.
www.Appliance411.com
The Appliance Information Site
=D~~~~~~

[tiggers]

Success! The heater element was the final culprit. Water jugs are frozen solid on the freezer side, and the beer is cold in the fridge side.

Thank you all for your help and keeping up with the lengthy post. I'm always getting tidbits of help here and there on the internet, so I hope this thread helps someone in the future when they have trouble with their own fridge.

[HayZee518]

I am soo glad this forum has helped you with your problem. We have experts in their field who contribute so much time and effort to help you, the user, to get around your problems. If you had done a search there is another forum within the "garden web" which purports to have "experts" to get you out of a bind. I have looked and all I saw was guys attacking each other in who's right and who's wrong.
Stick with this forum and you'll get what you asked for!

[tiggers]

Yes, I did check polarity at the plug, and it was correct.

I received the part this morning (less than 46 hours after ordering it, that's more like it) and had just enough time to get the fridge back together before leaving for work.

Before powering it back on I checked one more time for shorts, and did not see any. Powered on the fridge and it started right up. I could see the frost forming on the evaporator coils as I was putting the back panel back on. If it keeps working alright by tomorrow morning and freezes the water jugs I put inside, I'll move it to the 20amp circuit and let the wife load it up with Christmas ham. So far so good.

[Dan O.]

Check outlet

.
In the mean time be sure to test the wall outlet for proper polarization. The appliance could be dangerous otherwise... maybe less so being on a GFCI but sill should be corrected if it isn't.

JMO


Dan O.
Appliance411.com
The Appliance Information Site

.

[tiggers]

Yes, that was one of the things I did test once I dug into the back of the fridge this last time around, and I did get a resistance reading between the outside heater element and the heater element leads. After removal I found a lot of corrosion at the bottom middle of the element. After some brief sanding, I could tell it wen fairly deep.

Should have taken the time to test that better the first time, but I was so sure it was the relay (which I don't regret buying a replacement anyways) since it was in such bad shape.

Still waiting on the part, but should be here soon.

[Dan O.]

Shorted defrost heater?

I don’t think I should get a resistance reading between the heater element leads and the aluminum evaporator coils.

Not usually, no. The heater element itself should be tested for a short to ground once isolated from the circuit like the range element example was.

LINK > Frigidaire FRS24ZSF Defrost Heater

I am a bit perplexed as to how the heater element could be causing a short if there is no power to it when the compressor is running

If the wall outlet or appliance wiring isn't properly polarized (see attached image), it is conceivable the 'hot' line of the power supply may not be switched by the appliance properly and allow power to get as far as the heater making it 'live' even when not actually switched ON.

Confirming proper polarization of the wall outlet might be a good idea as well as actually testing the defrost heater for a short.

JMO

Dan O.
Appliance411.com
The Appliance Information Site

.

[tiggers]

Nice pictures, thank you. Installed mine similarly and the pieces stay in place by themselves pretty well. But... no Luck, lol.



I was about to just give up, but decided to go ahead and do one last hunt for an electrical short. After unplugging things one at a time (ice maker, water valves, lights, etc etc), I continued to get the problem, till I got to the last disconnect.


I disconnected the leads to the heating element in the freezer then turned on the fridge and the compressor came on. I measured the amps at startup and I think the start max was almost 9amps for a brief moment. So I focused on the heating element, timer, and defrost thermostat circuit.


The defrost thermostat at room temperature has no conductivity. After 20 minutes in another working freezer it did have conductivity (switch closed). I believe this is how it should work.


I tested the timer (4 contacts) and got conductivity between the 1, 2 and 4 pins, depending on if it is in compressor or defrost mode. I did get a resistance reading from the 1 and 3 pins (timer power) with the meter set to 200k ohms. This also appears to be working.



Heating element: measured 21.5 ohms from one lead to the other, spec says 22ohms. I also measured the heater leads against the evaporator coils and didn’t get a conductivity buzzer, but I did get a resistance measurement of ~1.5ohms (note initially I would get a different resistance measured, but at a higher ohm setting on the meter).


I may be an amateur at this, but I don’t think I should get a resistance reading between the heater element leads and the aluminum evaporator coils.


I am a bit perplexed as to how the heater element could be causing a short if there is no power to it when the compressor is running. Is there electrical leakage back thru the common to the evaporator to ground? As I said, with the heater unplugged, timer in freeze mode (not defrost), the compressor starts and runs consistently. Plug heater element back in, GFI trips.


Does that sound like a reasonable conclusion? Or should I check for something else before ordering another part?

[Dan O.]

I had to remove the overload switch from the old relay to complete the circuit. But there does not appear to be anything in the new kit to make it all integral (i.e. a case or box to hold everything in place as one solid piece)

It doesn't have to be held together. Often the overload protector will get mounted onto one compresssor terminal. Then the relay is installed onto the other compressor terminals (see attached image). Both should remain in place by themselves. The wiring gets connected and one of the covers mounted over the relay and overload onto the compressor. There is usually some sort of spring clip to hold the cover in place.

The large white and black boxes are just shells that don’t seem to fit anything.

There are likely different models of compressors that could have been used. One of the covers should just fit over the electricals to protect them from contact with anything else.

JMO

Dan O.
Appliance411.com
The Appliance Information Site

.

[tiggers]

Lack of refrigeration oil travelling with the freon gas will cause overheating. Unless you have a definite leak and freon has leaked out, some oil may have exited the system. Places for leaks are where the tubing connects to the compressor - connection to the evaporator tubing or evaporator plate. High or low limits if your fridge has them.

I took a good look and did not find any evidence of oil. Also, when the compressor was working for longer than a few minutes, I would get ice formation in my icecube tray and water bottles in the freezer section. So I don't think I have a freon leak either.

On a side note, I did notice that the drain pan under the fridge, on the freezer side (evaporator coil fan?) did have quite a bit of water in it. It's been a week since I was last behind the fridge, but I thought I had checked for water and it was visually dry. Either that, or water was there and a weeks worth of dust has made it more viable.

[tiggers]

After what has seemed like an eternity to get the replacement relay (Part #216008903) it finally arrived. I haven’t had a part ever take so long to get here, so I’m glad the fridge wasn’t critical.

Anyways, the new part is completely different from the old!!! I ordered 216008903, as stamped on the old part. It seems the manufacturer no longer makes it, so I received the replacement part 534426651.

For a visual, the old relay looked like the used part (not my actual part, but pic riped from an ebay post)

The new relay kit looks like the pic with the grids. The large white and black boxes are just shells that don’t seem to fit anything. The actual relay in the new kit is the little black box in the lower left corner. With the exception of the capacitor wires to the relay, none of the parts seem associated with the others.

How do I get the new relay connected? I can connect the fridge wires to the same relay terminals based on the old physical setup and wiring diagram. I had to remove the overload switch from the old relay to complete the circuit. But there does not appear to be anything in the new kit to make it all integral (i.e. a case or box to hold everything in place as one solid piece). Any advice from experience before I hookup and power on? I’d rather not go the ‘duct tape’ approach if I can help it.

[tiggers]

troubleshooting a motor can be expensive considering the tools you need. for the average homeowner a basic analog multimeter should be sufficient. as you get more into it, a clamp around ammeter is next. this tool will measure current in the circuit. the jaws are clamped around a conductor [ NOT PHYSICALLY IN THE JAWS] it operates off the induced current surrounding any current carrying conductor. next, a meggar.....

Multi-meter, check.
Excuse to get a clamp meter, check.
meggar, no go. To much to invest for this project

[tiggers]

Than I would say the compressor is not the cause of the short. Each other electrical component might be able to be disconnected from the circuit one at a time to see if the short subsides with each isolation. Each of those components might also be able to be tested for a short to ground individually to check them. A short can also develop in the wiring harness itself too. Those can be difficult to track down.

Will try this if the new relay does not work.

That will be the compressor trying to start but failing. How long was the compressor off before trying to start it again? A compressor needs to be off for 10-15 minutes before starting up again. The refrigerant pressures inside The system need a chance to equalize before the compressor will start up again.

Ok, this I did not know. It was probably less than a minute when I tried again.

Than power to the appliance likely went out. Did you test for power at the wall outlet even if the breaker didn't physically trip. Breakers can do that.

Yes, using a lamp and the 'plug something in and see if it work right' method, as well as another extension cord, just in case.