Outdoor power outlet no working

[mooremljeff]

The outlets on my back deck stopped working. I traced it back to a GFCI switch in the bedroom about 6' away. It wasn't tripped so I figured a bad plug. I started by replacing the GCFI but that didn't solve the problem.

Pushing the restet button trips the power to the room (circuit)

I've searched the house for upstream GCFIs and found none that are not working.

A three prong tester light confirms the GFCI is not working. My multimeter shows no voltage but I got zapped so something is there. I also used a KLEIN Tools tester: The red LED indicator lights up but not like a properly functioning outlet. The LED light flashes slow then fast and then turns green indicating no power. Basically, I get irregular results and the tools manual does't indicate what the results mean.

Any ideas? I'm leaving it alone until I get some help - no more zaps

[mooremljeff]

Update

I just depressed the test button and now the circut is tripped and won't re-set? Is something causing my GFCI switch to short out?

[HayZee518]

is the gfci the first outlet in the string off the circuit breaker or somewhere in the middle? either case, the upper two screws feed power to the gfci. disconnect the bottom two wires off the screws and see if the gfi resets. resets ok? then the problem is downstream of the gfi. it now becomes a process of elimination finding where the problem is.

[mooremljeff]

Which wires are the bottom two wires. I have a 6 wire GFCI. Are the single wires the ones that feed downstream or the double wires?

The only thing downstream of the GFCI is the outdoor outlet. Do outlets go bad?

Either way does not allow the GFCI to reset

[mooremljeff]

I managed to get the GFCI to reset and test okay on the tester when the downstream is disconnected.

Now, how do I go about trouble shooting what is causing the problem? I'm assuming all the plugs and lights before the line ends at the outside plug are the possible culprits?

Thanks

[HayZee518]

you can use a multi tester to figure out which outlets are downstream of the gfci. set the meter to RX1 and connect to the black and bare ground and disconnect the black at a receptacle. when the meter goes to zero you found the faulty receptacle. probably be a good idea to flip all breakers off in the vicinity of your downstream circuits in case you got a hot outlet where there shouldn't be power.

[mooremljeff]

Thanks for your help. I'm not much of an electrician so I'm not sure I follow, is RX1 for resistence? My meter has Ohms, same thing right?

I'm assuming I need to hook up the downstream recepticles from the GFCI to test? Am I testing at the front of the plugs or do I need to pull the recepticles to expose the wires and disconnect the black at the recepticle? If I turn off the breaker then how will I see a drop to zero?

Do I test both plugs and light switches or is there a logical place to start? Everything else in the room appears to work fine

[HayZee518]

all outlets on a given circuit are connected in parallel - that is: black to black or brass screw, white to white or nickel screw. lights come off a black, go through a loop to a switch and come back on a white [which should be taped with black tape] then are spliced to the black going to the load. RX1 is a meter setting to measure resistance. you'll need to pull the receptacles to disconnect any wires extending beyond the receptacle under test. mind you they are connected in parallel so the whole string would act as a single short on one receptacle.

[mooremljeff]

Thank you, that makes sense and I feel pretty confident I know how to move forward with testing.

I don't think I'm using the right meter or my meter correctly because I just measured a completly different plug and got nothing. I need a meter that measures AC, correct. My meter is a engin analyzer for DC

Any recommendations on a meter for simple home diagnostics?

[HayZee518]

an engine analyser meter isn't good. radio shack sells a cheap v-o-m multimeter. the v-o-m will measure voltages both ac and dc, resistance [ohms] some will measure speaker output in Db etc. you want something with an analog meter. a digital [ number led] readout won't do.

[mooremljeff]

I found a meter that measures AC/DC and played around with it enough now where I think I'm getting meaningful results. Its not analog but here is what I see:

GFCI plug: the white wires are all pluged into the recepticle. The meter is pluged into the ground and when I connect to each of the black wires I get 1, 1 and 0000

Sample recepticle on the same circuit: all 1s

I'm assuming 1 ohm means resistence and the zero is bad?

I've tested 2 GFCI recepticles and get the same result on each. Does this mean they are both bad? One was new and the other is the one I replaced. Is something else frying them?

[HayZee518]

a ground fault circuit interrupter contains a sensitive electronic circuit that has a set of contacts on a small relay that is actuated by an imbalance of current flow. current is measured going into a circuit and coming out of a circuit. if you had a small motor plugged into the receptacle that had a winding to its metal ground present, the amount of amps going in via the black didn't equal the amount going out via the white but escaped through the winding short to earth ground, the gfci would trip out disconnecting power to the receptacle. I hope this gives you and understanding of how a gfci works. your problem is finding out what is keeping the gfci tripped out.

[mooremljeff]

Got it!

I found the problem; some idiot (me) had the outdoor plug wired wrong. I had both the black and white wires wired into the same side. I don't think I would have figured it out without you mentioning Black/brass, white/nickel.

About a year ago when the outlet went out I assumed it was a bad outlet and replaced it, wiring it wrong.

Somewhere along the road I found out about the GFCI, replaced it and was focused on the problem at that point. Forcing me to understand the resistence problem really helped me trace the problem back to the outdoor outlet. Thanks!

In the end I could have simply reset the GFCI and been finished. Instead, I went on a roundabout method of learning but I'm glad at least now I know.

The moral of the story is stay with a problem until its solved and don't put it off or don't be an idiot

Now I need to figure out how to keep the GFCI from tripping based on how I'm using that outdoor outlet. What caused the problem in the first place is a green house light and heat pad plugged into that outdoor outlet. I've since taken additional precautions to insulate the controllers and plugs from the weather - I hope that helps.

Thanks again!

Jeff

[HayZee518]

you will find that gfci's "nuisance" trips. a nearby lightning strike will trip it, heaters trip it, certain test instruments will trip it. like I said before its all to due with current imbalance. they have a new thing out on the market that they're going to start enforcing called an ARC FAULT circuit breaker. It is required in all new homes [was bedroom circuits only] but now they're looking at all circuits in the house. it trips on an "arc-fault." an arc fault happens when you open a switch. there's a tiny spark when the load opens. they required them in bedrooms because of when someone would nail up a picture, they would strike the cable against the stud and cause a small spark that may/could start a fire. the arc fault tripped open the circuit.