Wall switch and shower...

[mrcaptainbob]

Is there a limit on how close to a shower a wall switch is allowed? I have a situation whereby the switch would like to be on the ten inch space between the tub/shower and the latch side of the bathroom entry.

[HayZee518]

6 feet no closer
you should not be able to touch it standing in the shower

[mrcaptainbob]

Wall switch...

Rats. That does not make this easy.

[pushkins]

Hayzee are you sure about the light switch having to be 6' (foot) away ???
90% of bathrooms have a wall switch as you walk in the door and a tub/shower unit right next to that (6 ish " away )

[mrcaptainbob]

Wall switch....

If the standard applies to wall switches the same as outlets, then maybe I'll have to locate one of those battery operated remote switches. Not happy about it, but they do work.

[pushkins]

Now an "outlet" cannot be near a shower, that's for sure, but a light switch most certainly can.

[mrcaptainbob]

Light switch...

Well, then maybe I will locate it there. Your question to HayZee and no reply from him led me to think it was not 'proper'.....

[HayZee518]

I searched a code book and didn't find anything but I asked a local inspector and he said no!

[pushkins]

I can show you a thousand bathrooms new and old all with light switches as you enter the door and with a tub/shower unit about 12" away.
It's an extremely common design nowadays to have the bath/tub/shower immediately to the left or right as you walk in the door in many cases there is a wall that the door opens up onto so this leaves just one location for a light switch that must be located as you enter the room.

[mrcaptainbob]

Light switch issue...

HayZee...in cases such as that, a difference of 'opinion' between the codes and the inspector...which prevails?

[HayZee518]

I know that you are in Michigan. Call a local electrical inspector in your jurisdiction and see what he says.

[Mark45439]

Excuse me, who said so?

I have to say I'm astounded by the "whatever they say" attitude with regard to these questions. If they do "say so," then I would insist they cite the authority upon which they rely to say so: something either is or is not permitted - whether that something is or is not permitted should be relying upon accessible written code or regulations to the same effect, not just because someone "says so."

I would hate to think of our entire legal system relying upon what someone "says," and neither should anyone tolerate it. Safety is fine, but law is law, and written and published rules and regulations are generally equal to the law. An opinion, however, no matter how dearly held, or carefully considered, or well meant, is not the same, and ought not be accepted as the same.

From everything I can gather from the NEC, 2011 version, the rules with regard to switches and showers are limited to Section 404.4(C), and to this language therein: "[s]witches shall not be installed within tubs or shower spaces unless installed as part of a listed tub or shower assembly."

Admittedly, for all the importance inspectors and others seem to give to this consideration, nowhere else in that code, which they were generally free to write as they saw fit, is found a clear and concise definition of what the language "shower space" actually means.

If one were to try to use what language CAN be found in the NEC with regard to "shower space," to try to make an interpretation of what exactly is meant by it, one is generally limited to relying upon 406.9(C), which, although addressing receptacles, "prohibits the installation of receptacles inside bathtub and shower spaces or above their footprint." Obviously, this section is defining the shower space, at least for the purpose of receptacles, as that area within the footprint and/or directly above it.

Therefore, if the NEC is going to permit the installation of receptacles right up to the edge of this space, then I would be very hard put to accept an argument that posited more stringent rules than this for switches. In conclusion, if an official is not going to bring something written to back up an opinion or regulation or requirement contrary to this apparent interpretation, then they are going to be challenged - if for no other reason than to see more clearly stated rules (but perhaps they already are as clear as I see them) with regard to switches and shower spaces.

This is my argument, and if you can unequivocally disprove it with written code, then I am delighted, for then my job is simple and clear.

[HayZee518]

Electrical installations deal everyday with the inspectors. simple fact, don't listen to the inspectors, job doesn't get approved. No O.C. issued. You're stuck!
You want to argue the point, take the inspector to court and get the NFPA to back you up.
Meanwhile there sits your house, no approval, no O.C.

[pushkins]

I have to agree, I was once of the thought that "law is law" and "code is code" and unless someone could show me where the code specifically said it couldn't be done I was prepared to stand toe to toe and argue the point, problem is no matter how right I might have been, my clients want to live in their house or addition or renovation and without the inspectors approval they don't get the right to do so.
Having said that I have argued a point with an inspector from time to time where for whatever reason their judgement was simply wrong ( I learned that tact was a necessity early on ) and I have asked for a senior inspector to come out for a second ruling.
On top of applicable codes in the NEC or IRC for that matter, states and counties often adopt different versions, that is why it's always good advice to call "your local authority" as was previously mentioned.

[mrcaptainbob]

Switch update....

Well, the way we worked around it was to ...uh....rebuild the bathroom. The switch issue was at my son's house. There were many other issues that needed to be dealt with, so they chose to take it all down to the studs. The ceiling and floor covering were removed, as well. That was the opportunity to correct all the 'issues' from the previous owner, that switch being one of them. Plumbing (negative slope for sink drain inside wall cavity), structure (many, MANY missing wall studs!) and heat system (there was none) were others. Another one of the electrical issues was going from 14 to 12 to the outlet. No ground on some of the outlets. Not to mention aesthetics. It's all good now! Thanks for the help along the way....