what to do with wire after removing wall?

[Colonel]

Hi guys,
At some point in time a previous owner had half a wall removed that separates out kitchen/living room. I noticed this when i ran into the bottom plate of the wall (2x4 protruding out from half wall that remains) throwing off the level of our kitchen floor under the vinyl tile

Any ways there is a hole drilled through it that looked like a place that wire was routed to maybe an outlet or light switch. I went to the basement and removed some of the drop ceiling tiles and stared in shock at a tangled mass of wires...some loose..all hot


With in 10 ft of wire there are 4 more instances like this but they appeared to be tied in to something else and disappear through the floor..

My question is should/can I turn off the power and place each of these "tied in" spots in a gang/junction box?

My plan is to untwist (the ones that are actually twisted) and re route them into a junction box and re connect them , put a lid on the box and put the ceiling tiles back up...is this what I need to do? Any tips other than the obvious..i.e. turn off power ect.

Thanks in advance

would post pics but not to the 15 post limit yet

[HayZee518]

if you can make heads or tails of what and where the wires are feeding, ANY termination point of ANY cable must be in accessible junction boxes, switchboxes or outlet boxes, with a device and cover or just a blank cover. Sir, you've got a genuine rats nest!

[Colonel]

rats nest is the correct terminology lol

I have a lil electrical experience...but this house is a maze of wire... one breaker works my entire office and 2 outlets in a room about 18' away (2 rooms separates them) Ill probably never be able to find out what goes where.

Just picked up some gang boxes and wire nuts... hopefully Ill be able to post some before and after pics soon

I was sure about the terminations having to be enclosed but accessible...i guess the drop ceiling is acceptable since it has removable panels?

[HayZee518]

I suppose a dropped ceiling could be called accessible, but what I'm thinking according to code is that when the wall or ceiling is finished, a known cover means the thing is accessible. if you could somehow mark the location of a junction box on the ceiling tile then it would be accessible

[Colonel]

I see your point, but isnt that the purpose of a drop ceiling?

I know when I was a commercial pipe fitter all of the offices we hung sprinkler systems in had drop ceilings...to hide the mess while leaving access at the same time...

I really want this to be able to pass when we put the home up for sale...I might do some digging for the local code tonight...thanks for your help so far!

[pushkins]

A drop ceiling is considered as accessible, so any junction box covered by one is permitted under code.
Many commercial buildings use drop ceilings and all have junction boxes up inside them, from water heaters in ceilings to air handlers, to simple light or power circuit junctions.
A drop ceiling is no different to an inspection plate cover.
Further to this last week we had our final inspections on a commercial remodel with the entire building having a drop ceiling, electrical inspection involved checking every junction box above the drop ceiling for covers.
(inspector had plenty of time...lol)

[Colonel]

Thanks Puskins... thats the page I was on just wanted to get another opinion

would it matter how many circuits ended in a box? For instance there were 2 wires, I each suppose went to 2 individual outlets...I capped the hot and neutral on each individually then run both terminated lines into one gang box

[HayZee518]

two circuits into one box is no problem but you need to identify which is which and which breaker it comes off of. you can have a three wire connected to two two wires off a common trip breaker.

[Colonel]

The 2 loose wires in the pic went cold when I flipped one breaker

The 3rd wire runs to the lights in the drop ceiling...different breaker

Im not an artist but the first attachment is a diagram of what I started with

the other 2 are before and after pics

I took the yellow wire in the diagram completely out..couldnt see a use for it
I cut the blue and green to same length, capped off and run into a gang box
Red wire (to light) went into a separate box

[HayZee518]

looks good so far. another thing to watch for if you can do it is to staple a wire within 6 inches of any box. this is just to keep it from getting pulled out of the box. another thing is just don't push the wire into a KO of a box. a suitable connector like a romex two screw connector or a plastic romex connector should be used in the junction box. some boxes have internal clamps that automatically grab the wire when its pushed into the KO. mark the box with a marker if you know where the wires are going or what it feeds.

[Colonel]

ahhh...See its the little things I am ignorant on.I know exactly what youre talking about though...just not enough experience to know before hand lol.

Does it have to be a minimum of 6" for a staple?
How hard is it to remove these boxes after nailed? I may have to jump one back a joist to be able to route the wire where it can be stapled and still long enough to safely reach the box.

and great tip about marking the boxes!

Once again I thank you guys!!!

[HayZee518]

whenever I had a rough inspection on a new house, the inspector always picked up on that stapling near a box. so I asked him what is the rule of thumb? he said between 6-8 inches is plenty, but not beyond - say 9 inches. that's too much! they make things that are nailed in the studs that make bundled wires easier to fasten within the 8 inches of the box. its a yoke made of plastic that holds wires running down a stud AND approx mid-stud. the book says to staple at the approx center of a stud. those nail on boxes can be removed with a small prybar between the box and the stud without destroying the box. its easier doing it in warm weather then the winter where everything becomes brittle.

[Colonel]

Whats your opinion on adding some blocking, say a 2x, that runs from joist to joist and stapling to it? I would run it parallel to the wire and staple into the side of it,

[HayZee518]

that's up to you - I mean your job isn't gonna be inspected - so its your call. I was just telling you what is expected IF the job is ever inspected by an authority.

[Colonel]

I understand, but if i were to add blocking between the joist and staple to the block...would it pass if it were getting inspected?

What i would like to avoid is having to pull the wire from the drilled chasers in the joist and running the wire below the joist in order to have it stapled to a joist.

I will do what ever I need to do to make it pass if it is ever needed..whether it is up to me or the authority. Im not looking for any short cuts, just alternatives