Outlet controlled by switch

[miladygray]

Is it possible that one plug in a single outlet can not work if the other one does? My disposal suddenly wouldn't work last night, so I switched the dishwasher plug with the disposal plug, and then the disposal worked, but obviously was no longer controlled by the switch. So both appliances work, and the bottom plug works; so either the top plug, or the switch that controls it, doesn't work. The switch has another switch next to it in the same box, which controls the light above the sink, and it also works fine.

I have no idea where to begin. Help, all you smart people out there!!

[kactuskid]

I would suggest you start by replacing the switch first. They can go bad and it's an easy thing to replace. Just buy one that is the same color you want and replace it. Make sure that the wires are installed on the screws on the side of the switch and not the little holes in the back of the switch. Loose connections result from using these little holes so they should always be avoided on both switches and receptacles.

[miladygray]

I finally got around to this Saturday. I removed the switchplate and found one wire looped around the top screw, coming from the wall and going to the light switch next to it. Then there was a black wire sticking in the hole in the back at the top and a red wire sticking in the hole in the back at the bottom. I took everything off and in the process, broke the looped wire. So I eventually got both broken pieces wrapped around the top screw of the new switch. Then I put the red wire around the bottom screw on the right and I put the other wire around the green screw. Then the disposal worked, so I put the switchplate back on. Then later I discovered that the dishwasher didn't come on! So I took it all apart again and stuck the black wire back in the top hole in the back of the switch and then everything worked. So there's nothing on the green screw, but there wasn't to begin with, and now there is one wire in a hole, instead of two.

I hope what I did is okay safety-wise, but it seems like everything works! Thanks so much for telling me what to do. It only cost me 49 cents to fix the problem and I did it all by myself!!! My husband was quite impressed!!

[LazyPup]

if you examine the sides of a typical duplex (double outlet) device you will see that there are two screws on either side, and between the screws is a little connecting tab. In some situations such as the one you describe it is desireable to split the two outlets on separate circuts. To to so you remove the connector tab and then run a separate feed to each screw terminal as was done under your sink. One is on a circuit that is hot full time for the dishwasher, and the second is through the swithch to control the disposal.
That same method is often used in living rooms that do not have a ceiling light. One plug is hot all the time, while the other is run through a switch by the door so when you turn room lights on it will turn a table lamp on.

Normally your first clue when looking at an outlet wired in that manner is to note two different color wires feeding the outlet. A black wire for the side that is hot all the time, and a red or blue wire to indicate the switched leg.

When replacing outlets that are wired in this manner it is important to remove the break out tab or the switched outlet will be hot all the time from the other circuit, thus negating the switch

[kactuskid]

Congrads on your inititive, but I must tell you that there are a couple of things you should correct on your wiring job. I know it works, and you did a great job, but you now have 2 wires underneath the same screw on your switch, which is a no-no. That looped wire that broke is actually your power comming into this electrical box and is supplying power to both of your switchs. Also the black wire that you stuck in the hole at the top of this switch is also a power supply wire to your dishwasher.

So, what you need to do is remove the wires going to the tops of the switches and remove the black wire stuck in the top back of this switch. Take the wire that's comming from the wall and using a red wire nut combine it with the black wire that was stuck in the top of the switch and two 8 inch long pieces of black wire (these are called pigtails) the same gauge (If this is a 20 amp circuit you'll need 12 gauge wire). Now you will have 4 wires under a red wire nut. Take the ends of the pigtails and connect one to the top screw of each switch. This way you will end up with just one wire under each screw and you will not have to use the little holes on the backs of the switch.

Here's a link that shows what a pigtailed connection looks like, scroll to the last picture. It is a picture of a receptacle but it is the same for a switch. http://www.danswiringpage.com/recepts_gfi.htm

One last thing, don't EVER connect a wire to the green grounding screw unless it is a ground wire, since you don't have a ground wire in your box then these green screws will always remain empty.

I hope this all makes sense to you, please ask back with any questions you may have. Your husband sure is lucky to have such a handy helper.

[miladygray]

Great. More work. And now I have to go back to the store! Who knows when I'll get around to that!

Another question...I mentioned to my dad that I did this and he said it was dangerous that neither switch there had a ground wire, but our home inspectors said everything was okay throughout the house. Is it safe to be this way? Do GFCI plugs protect switches as well as outlets? There are a couple of those in the kitchen. The house is only about 4-5 years old, so I can't imagine it would have been done wrong, but then again, the builders in this neighborhood weren't exactly known for quality!

Thanks for your help, and after I do the pigtail thing (although I'm not sure an additional 16 inches of big fat wire will fit into that box!) and you answer this last question, I'll try not to bother anyone any more until something else dies!!

[irregularjoe]

Gfi's protect the gfi plug and any device that is wired as a load after it. Not the switch.
Most codes don't require switches to be grounded though.

quote:Originally posted by miladygray

Great. More work. And now I have to go back to the store! Who knows when I'll get around to that!

Another question...I mentioned to my dad that I did this and he said it was dangerous that neither switch there had a ground wire, but our home inspectors said everything was okay throughout the house. Is it safe to be this way? Do GFCI plugs protect switches as well as outlets? There are a couple of those in the kitchen. The house is only about 4-5 years old, so I can't imagine it would have been done wrong, but then again, the builders in this neighborhood weren't exactly known for quality!

Thanks for your help, and after I do the pigtail thing (although I'm not sure an additional 16 inches of big fat wire will fit into that box!) and you answer this last question, I'll try not to bother anyone any more until something else dies!!

Did you ever see OHM'S mother in LAW?...... SHOCKING!

[paully]

Dear all;

I am new to the forum, and currently have an issue related to this topic, so I hope all the electrical pros out there can provide feed back/solution to my problem:

I am trying to wire a switch-controlled split receptacle to power my garbage disposer, as the previous owner didn't seem fit to properly wire this appliance and hotwired it with exposed wiring. One of the important step I'm supposed to do is to remove the connecting tab on the hot side of the switch. However, all the switches I have seem to share a common copper tab that cannot be removed without destroying the switch. Am I wrong on this, or is there a switch I can purchase that will allow me to remove the tab to one of the receptacle. Please help.

PAULLY

[irregularjoe]

It's best to start your own thread.
However, to answer, the tabs that you are referring to are on the receptacle, not the switch.
People usually break the tab to allow a switched garbage disposer and non switched dishwasher to be plugged into the same receptacle.

quote:Originally posted by paully

Dear all;

I am new to the forum, and currently have an issue related to this topic, so I hope all the electrical pros out there can provide feed back/solution to my problem:

I am trying to wire a switch-controlled split receptacle to power my garbage disposer, as the previous owner didn't seem fit to properly wire this appliance and hotwired it with exposed wiring. One of the important step I'm supposed to do is to remove the connecting tab on the hot side of the switch. However, all the switches I have seem to share a common copper tab that cannot be removed without destroying the switch. Am I wrong on this, or is there a switch I can purchase that will allow me to remove the tab to one of the receptacle. Please help.

PAULLY

Did you ever see OHM'S mother in LAW?...... SHOCKING!

[paully]

irregularjoe;

Thanks for the hint. What would be the best way to break that tab without mangling the receptacle?

PAULLY

[paully]

Went to work on the receptacle's connecting tab with a pair of needlenose pliers and that worked. Thanks for the help all.

PAULLY