short circuit

[airz]

I recently plugged in a power tool that had the ground crossed. This shorted the circuit, but the breaker switch didn't turn off. No power is reaching the entire circuit. Can I fix this by simply replacing the switch in the breaker box? Is it possible that the switch failed or maybe other outlet wires came loose?

[airz]

When I plugged the faulty power tool in, there was a shock. Power shut off on the rest of the circuit a few seconds later. The power tool was smoking and the cord was warm. Circuit is dead, but switch didn't turn off.

[LazyPup]

You stated that there is no power to the circuit which indicates that the breaker did switch off as it is intended to do.

The actual electrical switching action is an internal function of the breaker, and while some breakers do flip the control handle to the full off position when they trip, many breakers only move the external handle slightly out of position. If you try to wiggly the handle you would note that is seems loose.

To reset a breaker the proper procedure is to first manually switch it to the full OFF position, ( you may actually feel the handle resetting with the internal switch when you move it to the off position) then switch it to the ON position.

[Rewired]

On several occasions I have seen where the breaker will trip internally as LazyPup has stated they will, but in fact the handle has remained stuck in the "on" position instead of tripping to "off" or "center".. Usually breakers that havent been operated manually ever will sometimes stick like this. What wouldn't be a bad idea in your breaker box is to switch each breaker on and off once or twice, including the main.( I do that at least twice a year, during daylight savings time change when the clocks and timers in the house are going to be messed up anyways!!) This ensures the handle mechanism and some of the internal parts of the breakers remain free, and chances are if you haven't found the breaker that you tripped, you WILL after you operate all of them in your panel!

A.D

A.D

[airz]

I tried resetting all switches. I mapped out the circuit layout in the house by testing each circuit breaker. I figured the the only unidentified one must be the problem one. Next, I traded the circuit breaker switch with one of the same amperage. The suspect switch operated the other circuit, so the problem may be in the loop, unless my problem circuit is part of another circuit that also controls something else.

Is there an easy way to find an open spot in a circuit loop? Please respond with any advice including tools I may need.

[Rico]

Um. If its not the breaker, I'd guess that the wiring is fried in that circuit. I guess the only thing to do would be to remove the wire from the circuit and replace it with new wire (assuming you turn off all power before hand, of course!!!) Tools? A jackhammer (just kidding)

Maybe....

Vicegrip pliers
Wire Cutters
Heavy Leather Gloves
And extra dry wall and paint to patch up the holes you have torn in your walls to remove the suspect wire.

Better ask Lazypup or the other moderators for a more professional response. But this is how I would do it, being an adventurous novice.

[LazyPup]

Most electricians and maintenance men rely upon a multimeter to trouble shoot almost all electrical problems, however in order to do so effectively one really needs to have a thorough understanding of electrical circuits.

For most home maintenance testing even the inexpensive $12 or $15 multimeters will prove quite valuable, however there are two other testing instruments I would highly recommend to anyone who is troubleshooting live circuits.

The first item i would recommend is a single probe voltage sensor. The single probe voltage testors are not much larger than a large magic marker and fit well in your shirt pocket. To use it, you turn the switch on, then touch the plastic tip against the wire or device in question and if their is voltage present a red light flashes and an audible alarm sounds.

Not only can the single probe voltage sensor inform you that a wire is energized, you can also touch it to the metal parts of an appliance, HVAC cabinet, or even your plumbing pipes to prove their is no voltage present before you touch the item. (In recent years their has been a big trend to install plastic water lines to the house, and the electrical system is grounded to driven grounding rods. The copper piping is supposed to be bonded to the groundind system but I have run into situations where they were not. If you should happen to get a short in an electric water heater, pump motor or other electrical appliance connected to the water lines it is possible that the copper can be energized. As a precaution I always test for voltage before servicing copper water lines.)

The second trouble shooting instrument that i would highly recommend to homeowners and DIY'ers is a "STOP CHECK" outlet testor made by A.W.Sperry Instruments Inc. (There are similar devices made by other manufacturers and they all work basically the same.)

The "Stop Check" testor Is about 3 inches long and an inch thick and has an ordinary three prong plug on one end and a set of three Light Emitting Diodes on the other end. To use it, you plug the tester into the outlet in question, then watch which LED's light up. By matching the lit LED's to the chart on the testor you can instantly tell the status of the outlet.

Example, if you get a green light,,all is well........Red light only indicates a defective ground...Green and Yellow indicates an open neutral...Red and Yellow lights indicate the Hot and Neutral are reversed...etc etc.

Both of these testors are available at any Lowes, Home Depot, Electrical Supply house and most Hardware stores for about $15 to $20 each.


Airz..Given that you stated you had figured out the run of each circuit, you could use the stop check to begin at the begining of the circuit and test each outlet downstream. If you get a green light move on to the next till you narrow down the problem. When you reach the point where the problem is, the testor will identify what kind of problem your looking for.

Do not underestimate 120 volt current, if can be an invisible killer. Never touch an electrical circuit unless you thoroughly understand what you are doing and please, please, get a testor and use it, we like the people who post on our forum and hope to have you with us for a long time, do not take chances with electric.

I am always reminded of the sage advice an old Master Electrician once gave me. Every electrical device has two levers on it..Lever A and Lever B. If you do not understand the function of lever A...You damn well better Leeeever B!"

[Mr_Fixit_eh]

You say that you swapped out the breaker and it energized a different circuit. Did you try swapping the known-good breaker into the problem circuit? I would try that in case you have an intermittent failure with the suspect breaker.

It seems really odd that you would have a functioning breaker with power on, yet all the circuit is dead. If this is true, then you will not have a dead-short in the circuit - this would trip the breaker. You must have an open in the circuit somewhere.

I would start with the outlet where the smoking happened -- WITH POWER TO THE WHOLE HOUSE SHUT OFF -- because you cannot be positive there is no power to any of the dead devices until after you resolve the problem and complete your circuit map. Buy a new outlet and replace the old one. I'd bet this will fix your problem.

If that doesn't work, then I would check each of the dead outlets for a faulty outlet or a loose wire. Don't forget to check any dead lights as well.

It is much more likely that the fault would be in one of the outlets or light fixtures or the connections to those devices. It is unlikely the problem would be in the wiring inside the walls of your home.

Post back with your progress.


Mr Fixit eh!

[airz]

I recently obtained a single probe voltage tester and a stop check outlet tester. It allowed me to give updates to my situation. First of all, my problem circuit also runs outlets on a different floor. Those outlets work fine. I tested all outlets on problem circuit with stop check outlet tester and they all seem to be correct, even the outlets that don't work. The single probe voltage tester shows voltage in the small slot of the outlet on the outlets that don't work. I did find open grounds on a different circuit, but i don't know if that would affect this circuit. Can I install an outlet in place of a light switch to test them with stop check tester or is that unnecessary? Is there another way to check light switches and light fixtures? Any advice is much appreciated.

[airz]

I recently obtained a single probe voltage tester and a stop check outlet tester. It allowed me to give updates to my situation. First of all, my problem circuit also runs outlets on a different floor. Those outlets work fine. I tested all outlets on problem circuit with stop check outlet tester and they all seem to be correct, even the outlets that don't work. The single probe voltage tester shows voltage in the small slot of the outlet on the outlets that don't work. I did find open grounds on a different circuit, but i don't know if that would affect this circuit. Can I install an outlet in place of a light switch to test them with stop check tester or is that unnecessary? Is there another way to check light switches and light fixtures? Any advice is much appreciated.

[HayZee518]

In actuality all grounds should be all connected together because they all terminate at the neutral bus in the panelbox. If you have opens then you have open grounds at several points in THAT circuit. Maybe your wires go overhead in an attic or crawl space and terminate in a junction box where the wirenut fell off, the wire itself broke and still "looks" connected or is just fried. You are gonna hafta play detective with the whole circuit. ANY junction box in the line can be the problem. ANY fixture that the circuit goes to can be the problem IF the neutral goes through the device to another utilization device. We electricians hate this sort of thing but it's money in the pocket (grin!)

[kactuskid]

You have a loose wire somewhere, you need to open up each and every device as Hazy says. It could be in a juction box, ceiling fixture, receptacle, etc. If any wires are pushed into the little holes in the back of receptacles, remove them and wrap them around the screws on the sides. Check under all wirenut connections for tight connections. This is like trying to find a needle in a haystack and it will take some time, like said, either you do it or pay an electrican lots of $$$ to do the same.

[Mr_Fixit_eh]

It could also be a faulty receptacle if all the hot and neutral wires are connected directly to the receptacle screws instead of being pigtailed.



Mr Fixit eh!

[airz]

I replaced the outlet receptacle where I first had the problem. I turned the power on and nothing happened. Later last night I noticed one of the light switches was on on the problem circuit. Once I shut it off, the circuit worked. I'd like to thank all of you for the advice given and MR_FIX_IT_EH for telling me to change the receptacle and then reminding me to do it as well. I just thought the stop check outlet tester would find a faulty receptacle. Thanks once again for all the help, it was much appreciated.

[Mr_Fixit_eh]

Is the switch installed upside down?

I'm also curious...how many outlets are controlled by the switch? Are any of these outlets in a different room from the switch location?

Also, now that you've got everything working, make sure you go back and double-check your map of the circuits. Post it securely beside your panel--it will come in handy in the future.

Mr Fixit eh!