Radiant floor heating setup gurgles?

[Stayouttadabunker]

Temperature and pressure gauge when powered up
and when powered off...
Best to open>>> in a new window to get the largest views...>>>

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The water heater panel box...>>>

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More pictures of the thermostats...
and also of the air eliminator unit on top of the air tank.
Click on any photo in a new window to really enlarge!...>>>

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When I bled some water out through the hose into my bucket, I reduced the pressure to zero LBS.
But when I filled the air tank canister to 12 LBS - the pressure gauge on top of the heater ALSO showed 12LBS.

Anyways, I disconnected the red 240VAC power wire to the top element thermostat - that effectively left the elements un-powered.
I ran the circulator pump for a few minutes and added fresh cold water to the system with the directional check valve to bring the pressure to exactly 12 LBS. Didn't take much really...just a touch of the lever.

I don't hear gurgling sounds anymore and as I put my ear onto the vertical pipes - I could hear the circulator rotor turning smoothly with a faint hum.
I have pretty bad hearing but I can't really tell if it's water running through or the pump itself.
It's not loud at all.
The pressure did not change at all and remained at a steady 12 LBS.
I figured it was ready for heat!

I turned off the outdoor lockout switch and went and turned the main power off to the panel.
I re-hooked the red 220VAC wire to the element thermostat and turned on the heater again.d the cold intake remained the same temp.

After a few minutes...I could feel the output pipe from the heater being slightly warmish thinking yeah! while the cold intake felt fairly cold.
Here's the problem now as we stand:
Even after 3 hours, the hot output pipe did not get any warmer and the pressure gauge also stayed at 12LBs.

I stuck a multimeter on the two heater elements.
I get 239 for the top element but zero volts on the bottom element.
I shut the power off...pulled off the red wires to both elements and got an ohm reading of about 13.1 ohms with both of them.
So they're okay?

Maybe the heater element thermostat on top of the top element isn't kicking on?
Shouldn't both elements be fully "ON" when initially starting up a cold water heater?
There are a small temp adjustment on each element but they are both set to 110 degrees.

Or do we still have some sort of air-lock in the system somewhere?

I'm attaching more pictures I photoshopped to help with and to help describe what is happening up here.
I am hitting the sack...I'm tired.
I'll watch tomorrow and see if you can add any tips and hints as to what to try next.
Again, thank you so very much for all your help thus far!

-Mark

[paul52446m]

Radiant floor heating setup gurgles?

Thanks Paul !!
Okay, yes...I have the blue handle fresh water open at all times.
Thanks for explaining how to maintain pressures.
I closed the water valve to charge the air tank canister to 12psi.
I actually had to let out about 2-1/2 LBS. or psi.

The cap on top of the air eliminator was on very tight - I removed it...
That may explain why the air in the tank and lines weren't getting out huh? LOL

The only way I can run the circulator pump without heat is to undo the lead wire to the Lowboy's thermostat on the tank near the top heater element.
Both the circulator pump and heater run off the same wires in the relay switch box with the two thermostats on top of it.

One thermostat sensor runs to the outside air temp and is for an "outdoor lockout" and is set for 48 degrees.

The other thermostat sensor is taped to the hot outlet pipe on top of the Lowboy and under the circulator pump - it's set at around 72 degrees.

I drained some Glycol out of the cold pipe spout into a bucket for about 10 seconds to get the pressure gauge down to around zero psi.
Now, I am running the pump while watching the pressure and
trying to maintain the pressure by gently lifting on the auto valve handle.

I've attached a couple more pictures of the Lowboys' safety relief valve
sticker and some company labels that are on the side of it.
Open them in a new window to view larger...>>>

That feed valve should feed water into the system without you having to left the handle. The handle is just for a fast fill. If you just have the pump running with feed valve open, it should feed the water into the system and when the system is full it should bring the pressure up to 12 Lbs on a cold fill, so let it go and tell me what it does. It will take a while. Is it letting air out of the auto bleeder. Do not drain out any water. Paul

[Stayouttadabunker]

Thanks Paul !!
Okay, yes...I have the blue handle fresh water open at all times.
Thanks for explaining how to maintain pressures.
I closed the water valve to charge the air tank canister to 12psi.
I actually had to let out about 2-1/2 LBS. or psi.

The cap on top of the air eliminator was on very tight - I removed it...
That may explain why the air in the tank and lines weren't getting out huh? LOL

The only way I can run the circulator pump without heat is to undo the lead wire to the Lowboy's thermostat on the tank near the top heater element.
Both the circulator pump and heater run off the same wires in the relay switch box with the two thermostats on top of it.

One thermostat sensor runs to the outside air temp and is for an "outdoor lockout" and is set for 48 degrees.

The other thermostat sensor is taped to the hot outlet pipe on top of the Lowboy and under the circulator pump - it's set at around 72 degrees.

I drained some Glycol out of the cold pipe spout into a bucket for about 10 seconds to get the pressure gauge down to around zero psi.
Now, I am running the pump while watching the pressure and
trying to maintain the pressure by gently lifting on the auto valve handle.

I've attached a couple more pictures of the Lowboys' safety relief valve
sticker and some company labels that are on the side of it.
Open them in a new window to view larger...>>>

[paul52446m]

Radiant floor heating setup gurgles?

Hi,
First I'd like to apologize if this is the wrong thread or forum.
I'm fairly new to this great website!
I am working on a maybe 7-10 year old 30 gal. hot water Lowboy heater
that is hooked up to a slab that covers roughly 350 square feet...
It's not sending heat up to the floor slab area.
My guess of 400 sq. ft is probably overstated -it's actually covering
less area as I haven't measured it.
It is filled with a mixture of Glycol (red anti-freeze)
and I'm having a bit of trouble trying to make sure the tank
and lines are filled with no air pockets.

Every time I open the valve on the cold water (Blue) intake to the tank
( I have a short hose running from it to a bucket) -
I get a bit of air bubbles in my bucket then a steady stream
and the pressure falls on the Temp/Press. gauge to around 0 psi depending
on how long I hold open the fresh water intake valve? I think that's what it is...

When I release the one way directional check valve to let more
cold fresh water into the hot exit side of the tank -
the pressure gauge rises and I stop it when the gauge needle
gets to around 16psi.
The red bladder air tank...I try to keep at 12psi.
However, when I turn on the circulation pump and heater -
I hear some wicked gurgling....something's not right.
Sounds like there's still air in there somewhere.
Why don't they use a short length of some heavy glass tube so you
can see if there's bubbles or pockets of air in there?

There's a heavy red valve on the outgoing hot water line
over the red bladder air canister. Is this an "automatic air release valve"?
It has a very small bottle on top of it with a plastic screw cover
similar to the ones you see on bicycle tubes and tires.
I used a small air compressor to add some air to bring the canister up to 12psi.
The "auto-air" thing on top though is different...
I don't think there's an air valve on it like
there is under the bladder air canister.
It seems like it's just an upwards-pointing tube.

How is the best way to make sure the lines are filled and the air is purged?
It's not like I actually can open the hot water faucet because this is a closed system.
I don't want to burn out the heating elements!
Also, with a hydrometer, what should be the proper mixture ratio
and how can I add red anti-freeze to the system if needed?

I tried to make a drawing for you guys to see...attached also are some photos of this setup I'm working on!
You can enlarge them if needed I think by opening up the photos in another window...
Thank you very much for any help you can give me on this little project!
I'm all ears and open to suggestions!

-mark

Hi Paul here. First let learn all the parts. Pic. two is your auto feed valve,so the stop blue handle valve just before the auto feed valve should be open all the time. This auto water feed valve is what is adjusted to maintain 12 LBS. pressure on the system.
The red tank is your expansion tank. This tank is suppose to be air charged to 12 LBS. To check this you have to take all the pressure off the system then you can check the pressure in the bottom of the tank in the valve core, add air if necessary .
On top of the expansion is a red air eliminator. This is to catch the air and take it up to the auto bleeder that is on top of the air eliminator.. Make sure the cap on the top of the auto bleeder is open at all times, and never put air into the system at this point.
Try running just the pump with out the heating elemits .
Send me more pic of the tank, valves and piping.
Like i said, run the pump no heat bleeder valve cap open, feed blue handle valve open and see what your pressure goes to and see if the air works out of the system, it might take a hr. Paul

[Stayouttadabunker]

Hi,
First I'd like to apologize if this is the wrong thread or forum.
I'm fairly new to this great website!
I am working on a maybe 7-10 year old 30 gal. hot water Lowboy heater
that is hooked up to a slab that covers roughly 350 square feet...
It's not sending heat up to the floor slab area.
My guess of 400 sq. ft is probably overstated -it's actually covering
less area as I haven't measured it.
It is filled with a mixture of Glycol (red anti-freeze)
and I'm having a bit of trouble trying to make sure the tank
and lines are filled with no air pockets.

Every time I open the valve on the cold water (Blue) intake to the tank
( I have a short hose running from it to a bucket) -
I get a bit of air bubbles in my bucket then a steady stream
and the pressure falls on the Temp/Press. gauge to around 0 psi depending
on how long I hold open the fresh water intake valve? I think that's what it is...

When I release the one way directional check valve to let more
cold fresh water into the hot exit side of the tank -
the pressure gauge rises and I stop it when the gauge needle
gets to around 16psi.
The red bladder air tank...I try to keep at 12psi.
However, when I turn on the circulation pump and heater -
I hear some wicked gurgling....something's not right.
Sounds like there's still air in there somewhere.
Why don't they use a short length of some heavy glass tube so you
can see if there's bubbles or pockets of air in there?

There's a heavy red valve on the outgoing hot water line
over the red bladder air canister. Is this an "automatic air release valve"?
It has a very small bottle on top of it with a plastic screw cover
similar to the ones you see on bicycle tubes and tires.
I used a small air compressor to add some air to bring the canister up to 12psi.
The "auto-air" thing on top though is different...
I don't think there's an air valve on it like
there is under the bladder air canister.
It seems like it's just an upwards-pointing tube.

How is the best way to make sure the lines are filled and the air is purged?
It's not like I actually can open the hot water faucet because this is a closed system.
I don't want to burn out the heating elements!
Also, with a hydrometer, what should be the proper mixture ratio
and how can I add red anti-freeze to the system if needed?

I tried to make a drawing for you guys to see...attached also are some photos of this setup I'm working on!
You can enlarge them if needed I think by opening up the photos in another window...
Thank you very much for any help you can give me on this little project!
I'm all ears and open to suggestions!

-mark