Did I just get taken? They say a new unit is needed

[katybub]

In November I had a company complete maintenance on my residential Payne heat pump. At that time they said they added 2lbs of R22 and that I needed a $1100 leak detection service. Everything ran fine until February 20th when they came out for another maintenance. On the 20th they replaced the capacitor for $290. On the 21st they came out and replaced the contactor for $177 since the compressor kept running but no air was coming out of the vents. On the 28th the outside unit was totally iced over so I called them back. They said they added 1lb of R22 and it seemed to run good while they were here.

An hour later the Payne unit made a terrible knocking/tearing sound. They came back out and said the reversing valve was shot and that a complete new unit was needed. My question why was my system running fine before the "tune-up" and then started to fail afterwards? If a new unit is required, can a furnace be put in place of the air handler so the heat pump can just be eliminated all together? My head is spinning (prolly like yours right now) with all the techo talk and costs being thrown around. Many thanks for any help you can provide.

Katy

[HayZee518]

first of all R-22 is expensive either new or through the black market. if there was a leak [which it seems there was] the unit should have been "sniffed" to find the leak and repaired. most likely places of leaks would be any splice in the high or low side. normally the tubing is one continuous length from the outside unit to the heat exchanger. one tubing is larger than the other. the larger tubing is the low side, the smaller is the high pressure side. the capacitor costs about ten bucks. unless the contactor was totally burnt to a crisp, components of the contactor are replaceable - coil, contacts themselves. it is possible to overcharge the system which caused the knocking and banging and then the compressor itself freezes over. lack of oil will cause a system to freeze up [stop working altogether] a duct heater can be installed downstream of the heat exchanger with "zones" of heat levels. Yah I guess you could say you got taken to the cleaners. Change your techs!

[Speedbump]

I'm not in the HVAC business, but I agree, you got taken. Sniffers are things HVAC guys carry around in their tool bag and I don't think the honest ones charge anything near that kind of money to use it.

Sounds like these guys thought they had a love one and were going to milk the job for all it would bear. Change guys. Ask your neighbors and friends to recommend who they use.

I would also think servicing once a year would be more than adequate.

[pushkins]

It sure seems unusual for so many problems with such large repair bills in such a short time.
Did you actually pay for the $1100 leak detection service ?(as outrageous a price that is), if you did you shouldn't have to pay for more R22 a couple of months later.
How old is the heat pump ?

[paul52446m]

In November I had a company complete maintenance on my residential Payne heat pump. At that time they said they added 2lbs of R22 and that I needed a $1100 leak detection service. Everything ran fine until February 20th when they came out for another maintenance. On the 20th they replaced the capacitor for $290. On the 21st they came out and replaced the contactor for $177 since the compressor kept running but no air was coming out of the vents. On the 28th the outside unit was totally iced over so I called them back. They said they added 1lb of R22 and it seemed to run good while they were here.

An hour later the Payne unit made a terrible knocking/tearing sound. They came back out and said the reversing valve was shot and that a complete new unit was needed. My question why was my system running fine before the "tune-up" and then started to fail afterwards? If a new unit is required, can a furnace be put in place of the air handler so the heat pump can just be eliminated all together? My head is spinning (prolly like yours right now) with all the techo talk and costs being thrown around. Many thanks for any help you can provide.

Katy

There are a lot of HVAC co. out there that will take you, I know because i am a HVAC dealer. When you people move into a new area, by all means talk to other people and check these co. out before you have a problem. Paul

[katybub]

It sure seems unusual for so many problems with such large repair bills in such a short time.
Did you actually pay for the $1100 leak detection service ?(as outrageous a price that is), if you did you shouldn't have to pay for more R22 a couple of months later.
How old is the heat pump ?

Thanks everyone for their input. I really feel like I was taken advantage of. I didn't pay for the leak test since I don't have that kind of money if a new unit is going to be needed. The heat pump is only 6 years old.... just out of the 5 year warranty for R-22 units. I was hoping that if the reversing valve is bad that just that could be replaced. Do you know if that is even possible? I have another company coming out tomorrow to look a the unit and give their thoughts. I don't know if a gas furnace by itself is an option but I never use the AC where I live. Thanks again.

Katy

[HayZee518]

there was one posting somewhere, we were troubleshooting a similar a/c. if I remember correctly, every time the reversing valve would operate, the control circuit would blow a fuse and wipe out the control transformer. it was a 24 volt transformer. come to find out a wire inside the valve would get shorted every time the valve coil operated.

[paul52446m]

Thanks everyone for their input. I really feel like I was taken advantage of. I didn't pay for the leak test since I don't have that kind of money if a new unit is going to be needed. The heat pump is only 6 years old.... just out of the 5 year warranty for R-22 units. I was hoping that if the reversing valve is bad that just that could be replaced. Do you know if that is even possible? I have another company coming out tomorrow to look a the unit and give their thoughts. I don't know if a gas furnace by itself is an option but I never use the AC where I live. Thanks again.

Katy

If yo go with a 95% furnace, you can get 10 year on all parts, life time on heat ex changer. I sell Goodman and have good luck with them. I have never sold a heat pump, you could not give me a heat pump. All i hear about is problems. They are all junk in my opinion. They should be ably to change just revising value. Paul

[pushkins]

You could never get away with using a heat pump in Michigan, they cannot get the heat required (without using their heat strips) to keep a house in Michigan warm in winter.

Get a third estimate as well, three is a good number for comparison reasons.

[Speedbump]

I'm in Florida with two heat pumps both without heat strips. I'm really glad I have a Fireplace for those cold winter days. With a bad reversing valve, you may still be able to get by. As long as it defaults to heat not AC.

[HayZee518]

Heat pumps depend on ground water to extract heat from the ground. At five feet the mean temperature never goes below 58 degrees. To me this is chilly. Aux heat is almost always called for. How a heat pump saves money and energy is beyond me.

[paul52446m]

Heat pumps depend on ground water to extract heat from the ground. At five feet the mean temperature never goes below 58 degrees. To me this is chilly. Aux heat is almost always called for. How a heat pump saves money and energy is beyond me.

I think most of these people have air to air heat pump. No water use in a air to air heat pump. Its just a air con. with a reversing valve, so the evaporator becomes the condenser. Paul

[pushkins]

Yep, that's me here in NC as well, heat pumps have nothing to do with the ground temperatures, just like Paul mentioned reversing valves.
The heat they produce in winter is nothing like a furnace heat pump heat is kinda cool (unless the heat strips kick in) that is where they become unsuitable for cold northern climates.

[katybub]

Hi,
I wanted to give everyone an update on what has happened over the last week. I called another company out who did a service check. He found the system overcharged by 3lbs of R-22. This is almost exactly what was put in by the first company because of the "leak". He believes there is no leak in the system and that a restriction in the coil caused a low pressure reading and the original techs thought the system was low because of this. I had him remove the overcharged refrigerant for a cost of $280. I have written a letter to the first company explaining the findings and requesting a reimburement for the recovery. I believe it was negligent and it could have cost me thousands of dollars from a broken compressor. Do you think I did the right thing requesting reimbursement? If they refuse to pay me back, are there any other avenues you know I can take to recoup my loss? Thanks again everyone.

Katy