HVAC NIghtmare

[Freezing]

It was nice out today so, I went out and took some panels off, cleaned it up a bit, took some screws and things out, and photographed what I found during this hour of tinkering with it.

See images at: h t t p://s298.photobucket.com/albums/mm247/junknstuff_photos/HVAC/

I noticed the "litttle motor" is very hard to turn and appears to have locked up causing a "short" that fried the orange wire that goes to the sensor covering the three gas burning elements shown in the photo labeled "HVAC018.jpg" which lead back to the electronics board that also appears to have been damaged as the result of a short. (See the close-up in HVA023 and the entire board in 24).

I was able to find out HVAC013 is a "smartvalve" which appears to have sustained excessive temperatures as well....the plastic is melted in some spots.

Found two smaller gauge blue wires melted together leading to the igniterl. I can hear you pros already telling me to junk this puppy, but there is no way I can afford to replace it anytime in the near future ... any ideas, suggestions or information on this would be greatly appreciated. Even if it is a link to more specific information to this unit.

Currently- with great reluctance -when I supply power it does nothing, but continue to play dead. The AC side does nothing as well. 5 amp fuse on the board is not blown to my amazement.

Manufacturer: Goodman
Model: PG024075 1BB REV C

Thanks for your time,
Freezing

[paul52446m]

It was nice out today so, I went out and took some panels off, cleaned it up a bit, took some screws and things out, and photographed what I found during this hour of tinkering with it.

See images at: h t t p://s298.photobucket.com/albums/mm247/junknstuff_photos/HVAC/

I noticed the "litttle motor" is very hard to turn and appears to have locked up causing a "short" that fried the orange wire that goes to the sensor covering the three gas burning elements shown in the photo labeled "HVAC018.jpg" which lead back to the electronics board that also appears to have been damaged as the result of a short. (See the close-up in HVA023 and the entire board in 24).

I was able to find out HVAC013 is a "smartvalve" which appears to have sustained excessive temperatures as well....the plastic is melted in some spots.

Found two smaller gauge blue wires melted together leading to the igniterl. I can hear you pros already telling me to junk this puppy, but there is no way I can afford to replace it anytime in the near future ... any ideas, suggestions or information on this would be greatly appreciated. Even if it is a link to more specific information to this unit.

Currently- with great reluctance -when I supply power it does nothing, but continue to play dead. The AC side does nothing as well. 5 amp fuse on the board is not blown to my amazement.

Manufacturer: Goodman
Model: PG024075 1BB REV C

Thanks for your time,
Freezing

i am guessing you have a outdoor packaged heat and air unit. I do not have the specs. on this unit. i tried to look at your pic. but the address did not work for me. Can you check that out. You can email those pic. to
paulm989@lotmail.com if you want. later Paul

[Freezing]

The board rules do not permit linking for newbies, so I had to put a space between the h t t at the beginning, it should be "http...."

Brief history...bought the house about 5 months ago knowing it was bad and finally got a chance to mess with it.

My theory that the "little" motor "shorted" causing all this damage seems a bit sketchy I admit, but it is the only thing I can come up with. Do not know enough about these things to start replacing parts yet...would hate to burn up another "board" (if it is even burned up). It certainly looks as though it has sustained damage as a result of excessive current draw, but again I do not know much about this stuff. Greatful for anymore input.

I also sent a link to your email.

Thanks Again,
Mike

[paul52446m]

It was nice out today so, I went out and took some panels off, cleaned it up a bit, took some screws and things out, and photographed what I found during this hour of tinkering with it.

See images at: h t t p://s298.photobucket.com/albums/mm247/junknstuff_photos/HVAC/

I noticed the "litttle motor" is very hard to turn and appears to have locked up causing a "short" that fried the orange wire that goes to the sensor covering the three gas burning elements shown in the photo labeled "HVAC018.jpg" which lead back to the electronics board that also appears to have been damaged as the result of a short. (See the close-up in HVA023 and the entire board in 24).

I was able to find out HVAC013 is a "smartvalve" which appears to have sustained excessive temperatures as well....the plastic is melted in some spots.

Found two smaller gauge blue wires melted together leading to the igniterl. I can hear you pros already telling me to junk this puppy, but there is no way I can afford to replace it anytime in the near future ... any ideas, suggestions or information on this would be greatly appreciated. Even if it is a link to more specific information to this unit.

Currently- with great reluctance -when I supply power it does nothing, but continue to play dead. The AC side does nothing as well. 5 amp fuse on the board is not blown to my amazement.

Manufacturer: Goodman
Model: PG024075 1BB REV C

Thanks for your time,
Freezing

I think what happened to this unit is you had a flame roll out from the burners
and that fire burned the wiring up and could have caused shorts. I have seen this happen many times over the years. First where you took out the burners, look up in side the heat exchanger and see if you see any cracks or holes in the steal. Next take the stack fitting off near the top and pull the baffles out
Now from where the burners were to where you took the baffles out , make sure the inside of the heat exchanger is clean and no cracks. Once this is done you can put the baffles and stacking fitting back together. Now you need to clean those burners real good. Wire brush the rust off and blow them out good, and put them back in.
Now put all controls back in place. Replace every burned wire, one at a time so you don't get them confused. make sure you use the same size wire.
The white and red wire going to the pilot have to go under the burner pipe so
they won't get too hot. these two wires should be heat treated wires.
The little inducer motor will have to be taken off turned up side down , put a few drops of 20 weight oil on the shaft under the fan and roll the motor over buy hand until it frees up and roll free. once it free up just a little you can wire up 220 volts to it, leave it up side down and run it and put a little more oil into it to free it up. If it does not free up you will have to replace it.
You have to get to this point before we can start checking out the rest of the controls. later paul

[Freezing]

Paul, thanks a ton! I will try to accomplish this in the morning (sunday). That is a much better theory as to what happened as the little inspection window at the bottom is warped clearly from heat.

Update: The little motor, after several minutes of running on the drill with a bit of three-in-one and then about four drops for 5/30 motor oil it ran-but sounded like hell-on 110 for about 15 seconds ...t hen ... out came the heavily anticipated smoke. It just would not free up ..... Have to find a new motor.

[Freezing]

I think the model number parts suppliers are using for my unit is PG0240751 and sometimes PG024075 (without the 1 on the end). One of the diag. labels on the inside is calling this a SV9500 Hot surface pilot system, if that is any indication of what this HVAC might be. Oh ... and another "dodad" see: h t t p://s298.photobucket.com/albums/mm247/junknstuff_photos/HVAC/?action=view&current=HVAC018.jpg

The inducer part number is not on the motor. I think it might have been on the plastic that was melted when I was trying to free it up. Usually when I piddle with appliances I can find a schematic online and learn part names and numbers, but this HVAC is proposing more of a challenge. Anyway I think I found the part number as B194000 for a replacement motor ... man is she expensive! I would hate to spend all that money on a motor and then it have to sit outside all year round ... would treat it like gold. Hopefully, I am looking in the wrong place.


At this point it seems I have a suspect heat exchanger (possibly resulting in a rollout), bad inducer motor, likely bad control board and maybe a bad smart valve and some melted wires just for the heat side? In the property report it suggested 4k for a replacement unit, but I have not got a quote.

Is this thing worth screwing with? I admit I would get far more satisfaction and probably save some cash by fixing it myself, but good reason can be evasive in a situation like this, especially after the first part has been bought. What to do

[paul52446m]

I think the model number parts suppliers are using for my unit is PG0240751 and sometimes PG024075 (without the 1 on the end). One of the diag. labels on the inside is calling this a SV9500 Hot surface pilot system, if that is any indication of what this HVAC might be. Oh ... and another "dodad" see: h t t p://s298.photobucket.com/albums/mm247/junknstuff_photos/HVAC/?action=view&current=HVAC018.jpg

The inducer part number is not on the motor. I think it might have been on the plastic that was melted when I was trying to free it up. Usually when I piddle with appliances I can find a schematic online and learn part names and numbers, but this HVAC is proposing more of a challenge. Anyway I think I found the part number as B194000 for a replacement motor ... man is she expensive! I would hate to spend all that money on a motor and then it have to sit outside all year round ... would treat it like gold. Hopefully, I am looking in the wrong place.


At this point it seems I have a suspect heat exchanger (possibly resulting in a rollout), bad inducer motor, likely bad control board and maybe a bad smart valve and some melted wires just for the heat side? In the property report it suggested 4k for a replacement unit, but I have not got a quote.

Is this thing worth screwing with? I admit I would get far more satisfaction and probably save some cash by fixing it myself, but good reason can be evasive in a situation like this, especially after the first part has been bought. What to do

You are right on the parts that might have to be replaced, so you should check the price on all these parts. It will get into some bucks. This is why i said to look at that heat exchanger real close for small cracks and how bad it is rusted. I person can also put a new heat exchanger in a unit, but it can get costly and a lot of work. I could put a new heat exchanger in it and all new controls in one day, but i have been doing this for over 40 years. So i guess
you have to check it out for cost, and can you do it yourself. Also keeping in mind the age of the unit and the shape of the air con

[Freezing]

Is 4k about right for a replacement?

Next chance I get out there I am going to photograph the heat exchanger as best as I can and maybe you can look at the images.

Searched for heat exchanger...it is something that is made and not bought?

Any idea how many tons this beast is? Home is about 1350sq. ft. Looking on craigslist maybe buy a used one form someone else as another option....dont know trying to consider it all. 2 ton on there for 600 for an '06 model.....seems cheap when looking at parts for mine

[paul52446m]

Is 4k about right for a replacement?

Next chance I get out there I am going to photograph the heat exchanger as best as I can and maybe you can look at the images.

Searched for heat exchanger...it is something that is made and not bought?

Any idea how many tons this beast is? Home is about 1350sq. ft. Looking on craigslist maybe buy a used one form someone else as another option....dont know trying to consider it all. 2 ton on there for 600 for an '06 model.....seems cheap when looking at parts for mine

It is a 2 ton unit. 4K would not be a bad price to replace it. In a home that size i go with 2-1/2 ton. Keep in mind if you buy a unit with R22 gas in it , that that gas will only be available for so many years because they are doing away with that gas so if you get a leak you will have to buy a new unit.
To check a heat exchanger. Take the burners out, get your self a small
telescoping 2" x" 4" mirror and a drop lite. all you can do is look up inside the heat exchanger for deep pitted rust and any cracks. If you have a large crack
then that could have caused the flame roll out. If you decide to fix it i could
check on the parts prices. later paul

[Freezing]

It was equally as beautiful out today, so I was compelled to go out there and do some work on her and clean the innards. I figured out what the heat exchanger was and it is probably the nicest looking piece on the entire system, but I did not completely remove it. There were these long U shaped pieces that were pretty darn rusty ... not sure what they do but I took a pic of them. Swapping the heat exchanger out completely would take some time. Is there anywhere more specific to make sure it not cracked before I dump more money in it - or do I absolutely need to completely remove it and do a visual for cracks?

Here is a link to today's photos (remove the spaces at the beginning): h t t p://docs.google.com/leaf?id=0B2xE2bPgAe3AZWRkNTRlMjEtY2YxZC00YzlkLTkxO TEtNTFiODlmNDhjNjJm&hl=en

I did get the AC side working. The compressor was cycling ... air was nice and cold and the blower ran for a few minutes after the compressor kicked off ... I am guessing this is some form of intelligence/control left inside it? But, man how I would ever love to have heat now..suffering it out with these 1500 watt heaters has not been fun ... only a few months left until summer I guess.

Re: R22 ... you can't extract the R22 and "retrofit" to R34 like a car?

Did some more searching on Craigslist and there are a ton of deals on used HVACs. One for $150! New 2 ton Yorks installed for $2900, I love my old junker even more after I got the AC wired right and it actually worked...already becoming entrapped. I agree ... I always like to buy a little bit of overkill in the AC/Heat area to reduce the workload on the unit and possibly extend its life ... as long as you do your maintenance they will last.

[paul52446m]

It was equally as beautiful out today, so I was compelled to go out there and do some work on her and clean the innards. I figured out what the heat exchanger was and it is probably the nicest looking piece on the entire system, but I did not completely remove it. There were these long U shaped pieces that were pretty darn rusty ... not sure what they do but I took a pic of them. Swapping the heat exchanger out completely would take some time. Is there anywhere more specific to make sure it not cracked before I dump more money in it - or do I absolutely need to completely remove it and do a visual for cracks?

Here is a link to today's photos (remove the spaces at the beginning): h t t p://docs.google.com/leaf?id=0B2xE2bPgAe3AZWRkNTRlMjEtY2YxZC00YzlkLTkxO TEtNTFiODlmNDhjNjJm&hl=en

I did get the AC side working. The compressor was cycling ... air was nice and cold and the blower ran for a few minutes after the compressor kicked off ... I am guessing this is some form of intelligence/control left inside it? But, man how I would ever love to have heat now..suffering it out with these 1500 watt heaters has not been fun ... only a few months left until summer I guess.

Re: R22 ... you can't extract the R22 and "retrofit" to R34 like a car?

Did some more searching on Craigslist and there are a ton of deals on used HVACs. One for $150! New 2 ton Yorks installed for $2900, I love my old junker even more after I got the AC wired right and it actually worked...already becoming entrapped. I agree ... I always like to buy a little bit of overkill in the AC/Heat area to reduce the workload on the unit and possibly extend its life ... as long as you do your maintenance they will last.

The long U shaped pieces are the baffles that i was telling you about before.
they are very important, they baffle the hot gas fumes down so you get a lot more heat from the fuel you burn. The baffles are in the top of the heat exchangers, and the burners are in the bottom. You do not need to take the heat exchanger out. Just inspect it with light and mirror from both top and bottom side for cracks, holes, or bad rust.
You can not take the R22 out and put the new gas in. It Will not work on the new gas. It is not the same gas that they used in cars. No "retrofit" can be done.R22 gas will still be around for 8 years.
I could not get to your new pic. Later Paul

[Freezing]

Found some estimates on the inducer motor 1/40hp for just over $100 online at :
comfortgurus.com/product_info.php/products_id/2764.

Does it get any cheaper than that? Maybe some kind of universal motor that has the special sensor built-in and wired accordingly ... I just cant see that motor being worth so much. I admit I am a tight-wad.

Found another one for a Rheem that comes with a new fan blade for $85 and looks exactly the same and claims to replace B19400:

climatedoctors.com/items/item.aspx?itemid=2622220


Is the best price I can expect? Every time I search I find it a penny cheaper. Emailed a link to the pics.

Thanks,
Mike


Edit: now just found it for 85 shipped w/new blade on ebay.
Edit: now about 71 on amazon, but it says 1/200 hp.

[paul52446m]

Found some estimates on the inducer motor 1/40hp for just over $100 online at :
comfortgurus.com/product_info.php/products_id/2764.

Does it get any cheaper than that? Maybe some kind of universal motor that has the special sensor built-in and wired accordingly ... I just cant see that motor being worth so much. I admit I am a tight-wad.

Found another one for a Rheem that comes with a new fan blade for $85 and looks exactly the same and claims to replace B19400:

climatedoctors.com/items/item.aspx?itemid=2622220


Is the best price I can expect? Every time I search I find it a penny cheaper. Emailed a link to the pics.

Thanks,
Mike


Edit: now just found it for 85 shipped w/new blade on ebay.
Edit: now about 71 on amazon, but it says 1/200 hp.

there is a big difference between a 1/40 and a 1/200 Hp. you better make sure it the right one with the right HP, the right RPM. and you motor has a end switch built into it and you have to have that. That vent fan has be move the right amount of air or your furnace will never work right and you could have the fire coming out the front again. I can only condone direct replace parts

[Freezing]

OK, I will make sure to stick with the 1/40. That one on Amazon is 1/200hp. I see people are failing to discern between the 1/200 and the 1/400.

Looks like I need the 3kRPM, 1/40hp. 208-230v, 1/4amp.

Do you know what the part number is definitely?

[Freezing]

I messed with the heat side this summer on my outdoor packaged heat and air unit and got it working.

I replaced:
1. inducer motor;
2. rollout switch;
3. some melted wires;
4. smart valve;
5. inspection window

It worked fine after replacing the aforementioned parts, but seems to have tripped the roll-out "switch" (I have concluded the roll-out switch was bad as bypassing this "switch" by connecting the white and orange directly resulted in a flame ignition and burning). Adjusted gas resulted in nice controlled flame without any roll-out upon ignition or burn.

Now, after a few weeks of light use, when I call for heat I can hear the smart valve click and then click again within a fraction of a second. Then the valve does nothing for several seconds then just repeats this rapid two-sound click. I do observe the igniter glowing and a light odor of gas. My blower motor does not come on and the inducer motor always runs with a call for heat.

The working cycle normally resulted in a flame that would go out upon initial attempt of ignition then it would light again and typically burn this second time.

Now just this seemingly quick cycle of disappointment.

Any help is appreciated.