NexPump sump pump system?

[Speedbump]

I would be extremely cautious about buying a pump that doesn't even have a flow chart. All they say in the ITT site is that they do 4000 gph. THat's probably at 0 head or less. Give it 10' of head and water probably won't even make it to the top.

[Redwood]

I have been using the 120V rule sumps pumps for about 10 years now.
I do NOT have experiance with their 12V, but my experiance with both 120V and 12V motors in numerous other areas tells me that the 12V should work the same as the 120V assuming they are designed properly and Rule has been making these pumps, particularly the 12V pumps for a long time.
The Rule sump pumps I have used, test for the presence of water by turning on for only about 1-2 secs and determining the resistance to the impeller. If it is sufficient, it goes into pump mode and pumps out the pit.
If not, if tries it again about every 5 minutes, every hour of every day and my sump pump has been doing this "dry" for 8+ years.
So testing dry is not an issue, because you are not running dry, just testing for a few seconds and the seals and bearings are designed for it.
In fact, you can block an impeller and the unit just detects it and waits for
you to clear it.
As far as the system, I know nothing about it personally, but if it is using the Rule pumps, then everything else is just the electronics and the Rule pumps in my experiance have been extremely reliable and draw far less current for their pumping capacity than most other pumps.
I used the Rules, as when the AC went out, the pumps could run off a std high capacity UPS system.
Of course, all the rest of the electronics in the NEx system aren't there, and as mine is almost 10 years old now, I am actually looking at getting a Nex system as it is the closest to the system I now have than most.
I learned in the past the hard way, that even with a backup system, if the pumps are checked, when they suddenly have to work, they may be dead.

That happened to me so the idea the system checks the pumps and tells me "hopefully" long before that my system is failing, is important to me.

I have no connection with Nex or (as of yet) no experiance with their system, just the Rule pumps.

Hope this helps you out.

Bpstars

Great Post and highly informative....

It is also the biggest "Crock O Crap" I've ever read.

Rule does not make 120-volt Sump Pumps...

Rule does make 12-volt DC Bilge Pumps!

[Redwood]

I would be extremely cautious about buying a pump that doesn't even have a flow chart. All they say in the ITT site is that they do 4000 gph. THat's probably at 0 head or less. Give it 10' of head and water probably won't even make it to the top.

How right you are!

The flow is rated on a horizontal flow on bilge pumps all they have to do is get the water above the water line of the boat and shut off head pressure is of no concern....

It looks like NexPump has sent the Sybil Attack Force in now as the one post wonders are storming the gates....

I wonder if they sell salt-free water softeners as well....

I've had this system for 6 years. It has run with ZERO issues - except it told me to replace the batteries last year.

Some of you people have missed the boat literally.
So what do you do when the power goes out? or the pump or float packs it in?
Call your your insurance agent?

Me - I decided to avoid all those hassles completely.

If you are so concerned about the lifespan of Rule pumps, then install a $100 120 volt pump and set the NexPump up as a backup. The inventor shows how to do this on his site.

And I'd rather not have to go through the hassle of manually performing deep cycle battery testing. I've got better things to do with my life. NexPump checks it twice a day automatically.

No, we recommend the use of a real 120-volt main pump and the use of a real 12-volt back up pump such as the Zoeller Aquanot II. The expected service life of the Rule 4000 Bilge Pump is 2500 hours per the manufacturer.

I'd like to see the AI Control Box do the specific gravity test which is recognized as the only test for deep cycle battery capacity testing....

Can't be done by wire yet to the best of my knowledge....

There is no question here who is missing the boat....

[bpstars]

Try a little learning

How right you are!

The flow is rated on a horizontal flow on bilge pumps all they have to do is get the water above the water line of the boat and shut off head pressure is of no concern....

It looks like NexPump has sent the Sybil Attack Force in now as the one post wonders are storming the gates....

I wonder if they sell salt-free water softeners as well....





No, we recommend the use of a real 120-volt main pump and the use of a real 12-volt back up pump such as the Zoeller Aquanot II. The expected service life of the Rule 4000 Bilge Pump is 2500 hours per the manufacturer.

I'd like to see the AI Control Box do the specific gravity test which is recognized as the only test for deep cycle battery capacity testing....

Can't be done by wire yet to the best of my knowledge....

There is no question here who is missing the boat....

It would be nice if you had a clue what you where talking about rather than just spouting off.
Its not real hard to find out, just go to the ITT web site, click on the Rule Icon and when the page comes up, simply go to sumbersible pumps and click on the icon that says 110V.
Amazingly, 3 pumps come up, all for general utility use including sumps.
They only make the model 1800 now, the model 2800 (which I am still using BTW) which was rated at 2800 gph is now discontinued, however the 1800 gph model is still made and has been made for over 1o years.
I don't mind anyone disagreeing or giving their opinion, but if you are going to be impolite, at least know what your talking about.

[bpstars]

Rule pumps

Just to avoid any more confusion, the model 1800 was originally the 3rd in a utility pump line that went to the 2800 and the 4000, all 110V.

The major difference besides capacity, was that the 2800 and 4000 came with std 1 1/2" fittings for easy connections to existing sump systems where the small model (1800) did not.

And as to pumping 10ft, the model 2800 at 110V, and a head of 9.5ft, managed to keep pumping out my sump thru the 7" of rain we just got from Irene over the last 12-18 hrs.

I agree knowing the flow at the std 10ft ht is important , but even at Rules site, they only list the pumps gph at 0 ft (always have) and my 2800 lists the capacity at other head hts only in the installation manual where they have a chart.

As to the Nex system, it is tested on YouTube and like 75% of the pumps tested, seem to pump about 50-60% of their rated capacity when pumping to 10 ft. It is up to a buyer to determine if that would be sufficient for their needs or worth the price.

As to testing the battery, there are a large number of higher end chargers that all perform basic battery testing and charging. They don't claim anything more than that they do the same.

Personally, I agree that they stretch their feature list to the limit, but that is not uncommon with most manufacturers and at least I have not found that they are claiming anything that they do not or cannot do.

IMO, their system is a reasonable option that depending on what you need from a sump/backup system, could be a good option.

[Redwood]

It would be nice if you had a clue what you where talking about rather than just spouting off.
Its not real hard to find out, just go to the ITT web site, click on the Rule Icon and when the page comes up, simply go to sumbersible pumps and click on the icon that says 110V.
Amazingly, 3 pumps come up, all for general utility use including sumps.
They only make the model 1800 now, the model 2800 (which I am still using BTW) which was rated at 2800 gph is now discontinued, however the 1800 gph model is still made and has been made for over 1o years.
I don't mind anyone disagreeing or giving their opinion, but if you are going to be impolite, at least know what your talking about.

Right...

All of them hardly anything that would have a meaningful flow rate at 10' of head pressure since they are reworked bilge pumps....

Compare.... Rule 1800 AKA A53S sold at Grainger Item # 3P993, 5' head pressure 21 gpm, 10' head pressure 12 gpm, shut off at 15' of head pressure....




VS.
Zoeller Mighty Mate 1/3 HP Sump Pump, 5' head 43 gpm, 10' head 34 gpm, 15' head 19 gpm....




Zoeller AquaNot II, 12-vdc Battery Powered BackUp Sump Pump, 5' head 49 gpm, 10' head 36 gpm, 15' head 25 gpm....



Now those are what I call sump pumps....

So in battling the incoming tide in a wet basement you are bringing a knife to a gunfight...

Seriously I do this stuff for a living and if I installed garbage systems like that I would anticipate unhappy customers and lawsuits....

[bpstars]

Try reading my email

I did not say ANYWHERE that the 1800 is the equivalent of any of the models you mention.
in fact, I CLEARLY mention, the models designed to replace existing sump pump systems are now discontinued, the 2800 and the 4000 all of whom have specs that match the models you mention.

I also CLEARLY state that the 1800 is the lowest model designed for simple utility applications.

I am not employed by Nex, I have not told anyone to buy it. I have done nothing but present simple facts, and they are FACTS. If my 2800 was as bad as you make it out to be, how did it manage to pump out a hurricane load of 7" of rain in 12hrs?

And if this pump and the 4000 are reworked bilge pumps, PROVE IT with facts, not a bunch of rhetoric which is all you have spouted since message one.

Redwood, so far you have misrepresented the products of Rule, misread/represented the material in my emails and knocked a product you probably have never seen or used.

I suggest that you quit trying to prove yourself, and try to be the expert you're supposed to be and help people with real factual info that will help them.

I'm out of this thread. I'll let readers judge it on its own merit.

[Redwood]

Is this link below the Rule 1800 pump you are mentioning as being the only one currently available from rule?

Rule 1800 120 volt Utility Pump

The specifications I quoted are there....

And here it is properly advertised for what it really is....

Rule® Automatic Bilge Pump A53S - 1800 GPH

Seriously if it works for you I'm glad but it would not be a viable solution for most wet basements and in a finished basement or one loaded with equipment such as boilers, air handlers, furnaces, and water heaters the potential liability is one that I choose to avoid.

If you are not a sock puppet participating in a Sybil Attack marketing effort I'm sorry.

But when a first time poster shows up, first posting a question about a product of dubious value that is posted verbatim on another forum then seems to know a lot about the product he posted the question about arguing strongly in its favor I often consider it to be a spamming effort. Then multiple other first time posters also show up quickly singing praises of the product it bears a strong resemblance to sock puppets performing a Sybil Attack, where they seek to build credibility off each others posts....

You decide what you are... I can't tell from here... But I have a strong suspicion as I have seen this many times before....

[Speedbump]

I have used Rule pumps. In my boat several years back. The first one lasted almost an entire season. Almost one year. Now that's quality!

[Cableaddict]

Now as to your stubbornness and persistance in tooting the value of this system, I personally believe that you are not a consumer interested in purchasing the system, but rather someone that has a vested interest in selling this system. Thanks for spamming this forum as part of your marketing effort!

I appreciate your help, but man, you're getting a little arrogant, don't you think?

I do believe there IS one poster here who works for that company. It's pretty obvious, but kindly save your vitriol for HIM.

I've done nothing but raise questions about the reliability of these pumps. What exactly is your problem? For the record (I actually have to say this?) I don't have any association with NexPump. I just DESPERATELY want to install a system that doesn't have to be checked every month, even though NexPump is looking less & less like a good idea. I still have some hope...

One must also ask: Since flooding and power outages very commonly happen at the same time, why does virtually every waterproofing company put in a single, cheap 12v dc pump (+ battery) as the backup system? I mean, this will be the primary system probably 1 time out of three. It's just nuts... And yes, those cheapo Wayne - type battery systems are know to fail very often. That's exactly why I'm hesitant. At the same time, a bare (no float or switch) Rule 4000 retails at ~ $180. A Bare Zoeller M53 is about $95. Maybe the Rule pump is actually well made?

If you want to say that bilge pumps are never going to be reliable in sump pits, then every single sump & french Drain system in the world needs to have their battery-backup pumps pulled immediately, since that's what they all use. - And maybe they should, but you can see my point. It probably depends upon the service factor, and of course the particular pump used.
--------------

As far as GPM at 10', we know that they do at least 21, based on a YouTube video made by a guy trying to criticize this system. So OK, they might pump about 1/2 what the company claims, but 2 of them will still fit my needs, especially with another system (2 more pumps) installed as backup.

My main concern, and it still is not looking good, is reliability over the long haul. If I don't install NexPump, which is probable at this point, then I'm going to install an all-ac pump system, including the backup pump, using a much larger battery array.

Anyway, I've sent an email query to Rule. Waiting on their response.

[Cableaddict]

....And if this pump and the 4000 are reworked bilge pumps, PROVE IT with facts, not a bunch of rhetoric

Well, actually, there are not reworked anything, they are JUST bilge pumps. That's exactly what they are designed for. Nothing else. (So says Rule themselves.)

- But again, this doesn't mean they automatically can't work in a sump pit. Evidently many people have had good success with much cheaper 12v dc pumps in the sumps. Sadly many others have had such pumps go bad in short order. How to ascertain if the Rule 4000, (or is it the 3700?) which seems to be about the most robust (and most expensive) 12v bilge pump available, would hold up under, say, a 50% duty cycle for 10 hrs?

Sadly, except for one poster here, (who joined simply to respond to me) I can find no one, absolutely NO one online who has ever used these pumps in a pit, and no one at all that has used the NexPump system. Weird. (And the company does seem very aggressive in their self-promotion. This isn't the only thread where someone joined a forum just to respond to my query, with glowing words about NexPump but no urls, facts, or whatever.)

It's really strange, and worrisome.

But I just can't let go of the idea that this system MIGHT work, since if it did it would be wonderful.
My thinking is: What's a better pump, a somewhat weak dc pump that pushes maybe 2100 GPH (with 4 of them in the pit) or a robust ac pump that doesn't pump ANYTHING, because you forgot to test it and it got all caked with calcium?

[HayZee518]

OK, I'm no plumber. I'm an ex master electrician with an extensive background in mechanical systems.
Somebody wants a sump pump with reliability. An electric pump is the first one to come to mind.
Follow this link. It is a water powered sump pump.
Basepump water powered backup sump pump that uses water pressure to pump water!

[Cableaddict]

If you are so concerned about the lifespan of Rule pumps, then install a $100 120 volt pump and set the NexPump up as a backup. The inventor shows how to do this on his site.

And I'd rather not have to go through the hassle of manually performing deep cycle battery testing. I've got better things to do with my life. NexPump checks it twice a day automatically.

The battery testing isn't the big issue, it's the automatic PUMP testing.
As I told the inventor: (is that you, by any chance?) Installing NexPump as the backup, with an AC pump primary, doesn't make much sense, because you'd still have to fill the pit with water and test / exercise the ac pumps at least once a month.

[Cableaddict]

FWIW, I just got the head performance curves from Rule:

(note: I originally posted the wrong numbers. Now corrected.)

Rule 4000: 3,000 GPH @ 7' / 2,600 GPH @ 10'
Rule 3700: 2,600 GPH @ 7' / 2,100 GPH @ 10'

Not as strong as a 1/3 hp ac pump, but good enough for me, esp as I have 7' of actual lift, and would be using FOUR pumps in the pit.

Again, the big question is reliability.

Sadly, they are being very evasive about the reliability issue, simply saying that these aren't for "continuous" use.

Another possible problem: Rule recommends routinely removing the strainer & manually cleaning-out debris. I guess 12v pumps, because they are not powerful, can't shop-up & pass debris like most ac pumps can. - but you can't manually clean a sump pump. I imagine this is also true of all the other dc pumps being used as backup systems. - Maybe that's the main reason they fail?

I'm running out of hope at this point.

[Redwood]

Lets just cut to the chase...

The Rule Pumps are overpriced lightweight garbage if you want to install one go ahead.... They are a bilge pump and thats all they are...

The water powered pump linked by HayZee requires a uninterrupted water source of at least 30 psi to the pump, which rules out any home on a well. The water powered pump also requires a backflow prevention device which puts the installation cost right in line with a battery powered pump. They also with the best possible models (Zoeller & Liberty) use 1 gallon of water for every 2 pumped out and that is at maximum pressure supplied (80 psi) actual performance is reduced as supplied pressure is lower. In addition to generating 33% more water to dispose you are faced with a water bill that can be quite large.

The Zoeller M53 and Aquanot II are very reliable and you should expect a long service life in addition they will pass solids that your bilge pump would not dream of doing so. The reliability and testing really is not required like you think it is. These pumps work! It's that simple! Routine battery maintenance is required but that is the same on any battery back up pump and testing is recommended to ensure the capacity does not fall off as the end of the battery life approaches.

If you want a reliable 120-volt system then install dual Zoeller M53 pumps with an alternating control and an alarm on the system that will let you know when you are down to a single pump. Then install a generator with auto transfer to power the pumps in an outage. However, you will then be testing the generator and maintaining that as well.

As for the basement waterproofers installing cheapo Wayne Pumps that is what they do. It's profit driven and they last long enough to make it out of the guarantee period.

There is no way around it, any system installed will require some testing and maintenance. But some require a lot less than others and don't have highly marketed tests of dubious value.

The choice is yours do what you want with the information provided. I'm just a plumber that has worked on hundreds of systems and I know what works and doesn't. I have told you what I would do for my customers because I like to have my customers call me back for other work, and tell their friends about me, the one way I know of to have this happen is to give them plumbing that works, at a fair price. That's what I do!