Washer install issue

[joshhudm]

Hi all,

So our old washer died and we purchased a new one. Of course now we have an issue. When water empties from the washer into the drain pipe the water shoots out of the holes in the gasket that keeps the pipe in the drain pipe. Do i need to have someone come out and run a snake down there? We have a 50-60 year old house and nothing is easy here. Please help.

[Nestor]

Yep, it sounds like you need to have the main drain line from your house cleared by a plumber.

Washing machines are generally regarded as the "canary in the coal mine" when it comes to knowing the condition of your drain piping. That's because no other appliance or plumbing fixture puts as much water into your drain piping as quickly as a spinning washing machine, and so if there is any partial clogging of your drain piping, it's going to show up first when the washer spins.

You should also know that you can often get a better job done for less by contacting the small drain cleaning companies that only have a phone number listing in the yellow pages rather than the companies that take out quarter, half or full page ads. You see, new plumbers will often get jobs working for the major drain clearing companies. People that have worked for those major companies long enough to be confident that they have seen and done it all when it comes to clearing drains are the ones with enough confidence to borrow money from the Bank of Dad to buy their own equipment and start their own drain clearing companies. So, if you phone a small company with just a phone number listing, it'll be the CEO and President of that company who comes out to clear your drain, whereas if you phone the Rooter, it's more likely to be someone with less experience doing the work. And, even though the smaller company charges less for their work, the guy actually doing the work takes home more money on each job working for himself than he did working for the Rooter. It's just another example of how greed serves to shape our economy.

[joshhudm]

Thanks for the response. Any idea how much that runs?

[Starchy]

I am not a professional plumber or any trade for that matter, however I have tackled most home projects over my years of home ownership. We had a similar problem when we installed our new Maytag washer. Research revealed that many new washers today, pump water out at a much higher rate than the older models. I was told that our standard 1.5" drain pipe was not large enough to carry that flow rate, and it was suggested that I change it to 2". Not going to happen for me, but if it is doable for you, it may be something to consider. Before going to all of that work, inspect the trap on the waste line. There must be one, usually very close to where the line drops through the floor, if not above the floor. You may also want to inspect the vent for that waste line, it may be partially obstructed causing air to be trapped in the line, slowing down the flow of water. I had to install a "Quebec vent" on that line. It is like a very sensitive check valve that allows air to flow after the water, but does not allow air to seep out into the room. Worked for me. Hope this is helpful.

[joshhudm]

Thanks I read something similar. I'll look into that a well

[Nestor]

Joshhudm:

Maybe watch your washer closely when it starts to spin after the first wash cycle. Maybe even take the drain hose out of the stand pipe an inch or so, so that you know when the water starts being pumped out of the machine.

If water starts to gush out of the stand pipe almost immediately, then it could just be a clog in the P-trap at the bottom of that stand pipe. If water starts to gush out only after a while of pumping, it's most likely the main drain line from your house being partially clogged and not being able to handle the amount of water flow. Then you need to snake the main drain line.

I don't have a house, and so I don't know what plumbers charge to clear the 4 inch main drain line from a house. But, I recall phoning around to get prices for clearing the 1 1/2 inch kitchen sink drain line from a stack of three apartments, and the prices ranged from $60 for a small one man outfit to $200 if you go with any company that advertises on the radio and has a full page ad in the yellow pages.

Another option that may be offered to you is to have your main drain line "jetted". Jetters are the latest things in drain clearing equipment. This is where they push a high pressure water hose down the drain line and essentially pressure wash the inside of your drain piping. Jetters don't offer an awful lot of advantage to the customer, but they're better from the plumber's point of view for a number of reasons. One is that you can pressure wash the inside of just about any size pipe with the same nozzle on the end of the hose; you don't have to change cutters to match the pipe size. The second is that the jetter hose is plastic or rubber coated both inside and out, and so there's virtually no chance of it breaking and having to recover a piece of steel snake stuck in the drain pipe (which is always a possibility with a steel snake). Both snakeing your drain line and having it jetted will clear the line of any partial clogs, so I'd take the option that's the least expensive. Also, high pressure water hose is more flexible than steel plumbing snake, and that makes the job easier for the plumber.

STARCHY: Those "Quebec" valves you mentioned are most commonly called an "air admittance valve" or a "Studor" valve. Studor is just a brand name, but I expect they were the original company to make air admittance valves and so that kind of valve became commonly known as a "Studor valve", just like "Kleenex", "Q-tip" and "Ski-Doo".
If you're still having a problem with your washing machine pumping out too much water for your drain system to handle, I'd run the idea of splicing a gate valve in the washer's drain hose and leaving it partially closed by Dan O. in the appliances forum and see what he thinks. Washing machine pumps have rubber impellers that are designed to handle coins and buttons without damage, so I kinda doubt the increased back pressure on the pump would do any harm to the pump or the washing machine. In a six minute spin cycle, almost all of the water is pumped out of the machine within the first 60 seconds anyway. The remaining 5 minutes are to spin the water out of the clothes with centrifugal force. If it takes 90 seconds to pump the water out of the machine, and the spin dry is only 4 1/2 minutes, they're going to be pretty well the same dampness when they come out of the machine cuz very little water comes out of the washer during the final 30 seconds of spinning.

[joshhudm]

Thanks it is pretty much right away. Any suggestions on clearing that out. Would a manual snake do it or should I have a plumber come out and clear it.

[pushkins]

Get yourself a bucket and manually pour water down the drain, this will help give you a feel of how much water it takes, it will also give you an idea of where the blockage is (if there is one) in the drain line, for example a couple of gallons probably suggests around the P trap area on 1 1/2" pipe.
As previously mentioned code now says a min. of 2" drain lines are required mainly to accommodate the fast discharge and volume of top loading machines.

[joshhudm]

Hey Pushkins,

Yeah its pretty immediate. I havent poured water down because its a tight squeeze between the faucets and the drain but when the washer starts to empty it literally before i can say the number one and its gushing back.. im going to have to rip some drywall out now because of this mess... gotta love being a home owner.. Do i need to rent a power auger or will a manual work?

[Nestor]

Joshhudm:

You say it starts backing up right away. Does it do that consistantly?

I say that because if water were backing up in your drain piping because your main drain line was partially clogged, the backing up of your washer's stand pipe wouldn't be consistantly immediate. Every time you used the washer there would be a different amount of water in your drain piping and some times it would take longer for the stand pipe to back up than other times.

If it's consistantly backing up immediately after the washer starts to spin, then it's probably not the main drain line from your house clogging up at all. It's probably that the p-trap at the bottom of the stand pipe is clogged up with something. But, since there's not going to be any hair or food scraps going down that standpipe, I'd be at a total loss as to explain why that trap would clog unless somebody dropped something into that p-trap.

The p-trap at the bottom of the stand pipe should be accessible. Can you see if it's the "adjustable" type so that you can unscrew it and clean it out manually? Or, is there a clean out plug or cap on the bottom of it?

If the answer to both questions is NO, then if it were me, I would liberate a speedometer cable from your local auto wrecker, bend the end of it so that it scrapes the inside of the pipe, put that in a cordless drill and use it as a poor man's snake to snake the p-trap at the bottom of your stand pipe. Go slowly so as not to coil up that cable inside your drain piping. If it's anything similar to the hair clogs or rotting food clogs you get in bathtub or kitchen sink drains, the speedometer cable will clear it. But, in my building I've had 3 washing machines running for over 25 years, and not once did the p-trap at the bottom of any stand pipe clog.

Also, I have a carpet shampooer with two Ametek three stage vaccuum motors which I use to suck earings, parts from eye glasses and even a cap from a tooth out of p-traps. If something solid has been dropped into that stand pipe, you might consider saving the cost of a plumber and calling a carpet cleaning company to clean your living room carpet. While they're there, ask them to try sucking the blockage out of your stand pipe, too.

I can't see that p-trap getting clogged except if something solid (like a toothbrush or comb got into it, and I can't see anything like that making it through the washer's pump, so I'm at a loss to explain how a clog could form in that p-trap.

[HayZee518]

trap and pipe size

if the drain is an inch and a half and feeds into an S trap there is a lot of back pressure until the siphon action starts. that's why it was suggested that the drain line be a 2 inch line in a previous answer.

[joshhudm]

Well it isn't accessible but since there is so much water damage I have to tear out the drywall anyway. Do well see, I have a feeling there isn't a p trap.when we moved in money of the outlet pipes had any traps at all.

[joshhudm]

Well i tried to auger it to no avail. So i cut the drywall and of course with my luck the pipe goes right into our concrete slab... so that fun.... Think if i cut it about 3-4 inches above the concrete and put a 2inch PVC pipe in that would fix the problem? This sucks BTW lol

[pushkins]

Joshhudm what's the construction below this P Trap, is it a crawlspace, basement (finished or unfinished) or concrete slab ?

[pushkins]

lol you posted about the same time i did....

okay so now you have the wall open and the 1 1/2" pipe disappears into the slab, so the P trap in under the slab.
How far down did the auger go ?
From the layout of your home do you think anything else connects to this line or this line connect to anything else locally, like a bathroom nearby etc...