Washer install issue

[joshhudm]

soo.. i took the hot water hose and stuck in in the drain pipe to see how much water it could take. Well it never overflowed, the water only would go as high as the hose was deep into the pipe if that makes sense... then it would bubble and drain out... then fill back up... and drain back out. sounds like an air issue..... any suggestions?

[joshhudm]

It looks like everything is connected to the same line. Basically one line in and one line out.. We do have one vent pipe on the roof. i believe this pipe is last in line.. this.. into bathroom.. into kitchen sink.. then outside... this is the only thing that has a problem draining.

[pushkins]

The bubbling, could be a vent issue, it could still be a partial blockage down stream, if you look outside do you see a vent pipe sticking up through the roof near this location.
Have you bought a new washer recently ?

[joshhudm]

oh and i would say the auger went down under the slab. It does feel like its getting stuck or going around a turn then wont budge anymore.. sorry for the mass response.

[joshhudm]

This is a brand new washer we bought saturday and the vent pipe that goes to the roof is about 6ish feet away in the bathroom.

[pushkins]

Manual augers will often get caught up on bends and especially P Traps.
You never had any issues before the new washer ?, was your previous washer a really old one ?
Reason I ask is that new washers discharge water very rapidly, it could be that your existing plumbing (1 1/2") simply cannot handle the sudden volume.
The fact that when you put the washer hose down the drain and it never overflows is a good thing have you tried both at once ?
You may have to get in a plumber with a camera to scope out the line, if the toilet and tubs nearby all drain normally then either a blockage is upstream of them towards the laundry or the existing line cannot handle the new volume.

Not much help am I ...

[joshhudm]

It is a pretty small house all of the drains are within 10 ft of each other.. I have a feeling it might be that it is only 1 1/2 piping. I am not sure how old the other washer is since it came with the house but it didnt seem too old. Would it work if i cut the 1 1/2 line just above the slab and added a 2" pipe that way or is that not enough.. or could I add an AAV?

[Starchy]

Thanks Joshhudm for your response. After installing the air admittance valve, my problems cleared up. Recently had a plumber in for another job, and he looked at the venting system of our 11 yr old bungalow, and said it was done incorrectly when built. He could fix it for $3500. Being retired now, that was a bit too much to handle, especially since the air admittance valve solved our washer problem. All sinks etc drain OK, except the bathtub and kitchen sink gurgle when getting to the end of drain "cycle" i.e. almost drained. I can live with the noise, now that the washer drains as it should.

[joshhudm]

how did you install that on the drain line.. im not sure how i would do that.. also i have a feeling it is because, as some have said, it is just a new washer that pushes too much water out.. not sure an AAV would help.

[Nestor]

Well i tried to auger it to no avail. So i cut the drywall and of course with my luck the pipe goes right into our concrete slab... so that fun.... Think if i cut it about 3-4 inches above the concrete and put a 2inch PVC pipe in that would fix the problem?

the auger went down under the slab. It does feel like its getting stuck or going around a turn then wont budge anymore..

soo.. i took the hot water hose and stuck in in the drain pipe to see how much water it could take. Well it never overflowed, the water only would go as high as the hose was deep into the pipe if that makes sense... then it would bubble and drain out... then fill back up... and drain back out. sounds like an air issue..... any suggestions?

When I put all these things together, I'm coming up with a partially clogged main drain line.

If the auger seemed to get "stuck", I expect that it was just too stiff to get through the p-trap at the bottom of the stand pipe, but that also means there's a p-trap encased in concrete under the floor. (Yikes! I wouldn't feel comfortable encasing a p-trap in concrete.) I'm thinking that there's air trapped down stream of that p-trap, and that air is being compressed by the hydrostatic head of the water in the standpipe. As the water height in the standpipe rises, the height of the water in the "U" of the p-trap rises, and some water will drain away into the drain pipe, further compressing the air and forcing a bubble of air out of the stand pipe. But, that air wouldn't be compressed downstream of the p-trap if there wasn't water below that air that wasn't draining away. If the water under that air was draining away properly as it should, there wouldn't be any air down stream of the P-trap. All of that air would consist as bubbles in the rapidly flowing water. It's precisely because the water under that air isn;t flowing as it should that the air gets compressed in the drain piping, and we get a pressure war happening between the air and water in the P-trap.

Joshhudm:

1. Most likely the snake you used simply couldn't get around the p-trap at the bottom of that standpipe. That's why the snake seemed to get "stuck". Speedometer cables are a lot more flexible and can go around much tighter corners.

2. Replacing the top few feet of your stand pipe with a 2 inch pipe won't do anything to solve the problem. The entire length of drain piping from the top of the standpipe to where the washer's drain piping enters a larger drain pipe would have to be replaced with 2 inch drain piping to make any difference. In your case, your 1 1/2 inch drain piping isn't working as it should. Replacing the piping with larger piping won't help because whatever is causing your existing drain piping not to work properly will have the same effect on 2 inch drain piping as it does on your existing 1 1/2 inch drain piping.

3. If there's air bubbling out of your stand pipe, then the problem is not suction in the drain piping which air admittance valve are meant to eliminate. An air admittance valve allows air IN to your drain piping to eliminate any suction that could potentially suck the water out of the p-trap (thereby allowing smelly sewer gas to come into your house through the stand pipe). In this case you have pressure in your drain pipe, and an air admittance valve will close to prevent air escaping out of it. So, I can't see the installation of an air admittance valve helping here.


I'm thinking that if I were you, I would have the main drain line cleared to ensure that water flows out of your house unimpeded.

That air you saw bubbling out of the stand pipe had to come from somewhere and the only explanation is that it's air that was trapped downstream of the P-trap. The only way air can be compressed is if it's contained, and that means there had to be something under that air preventing it from moving along the drain pipe just as water would or becoming entrained as air bubbles in the quickly flowing water. The most likely cause of that would be a partial blockage of that main drain line restricting the rate at which water can flow away.

Besides, having your main drain line cleared is something that generally does need to be done periodically on every home, and if you can't remember the last time you had yours cleared, then it's probably due by now anyhow. And, from what I'm thinking, it might very well solve the problem you're having with the washing machine completely. Or at least, that'd be my next step.

[joshhudm]

Now the only thing I can say to that is wouldn't I see an issue with the main line if I ran my tub, sinks, toilet at the same . Because they drain perfectly.I'm really feeling that the pipe can't handle to amount of the washer is putting out. Either way would installing an aav do anything?

[HayZee518]

waste line

even if you cut the existing line at the slab and added a 2 inch line you's still have the 1 1/2 inch restriction where the 2 inch meets the inch and a half. sort of a venturi effect.

[joshhudm]

So i gave up and called roto-rooter. Well they brought a real auger out and ran it down the pipe, now it drains like a champ.... guess i learned my lesson, leave plumbing to the expensive pro's.

[pushkins]

Great to hear problem solved, I knew it was never going to be "Trapped air" as that cannot physically happen in a drain line.

[Nestor]

leave plumbing to the expensive pro's.

It wouldna been nearly as expensive if you'd called a smaller company. The Rooter makes a good business by keeping their name at the top of people's minds when it comes to drain clearing. When the drain backs up, people panic and call the first company that comes to mind. That's how they can afford to advertise on the radio and keep a full page ad in the yellow pages phone book. Next time, call a small company with just a phone listing and save a bundle.

Drain piping can be set up in different ways. MOST of the stuff that clogs your main drain line will be solids from the kitchen sink. If you have a main vent stack in your house that the bathroom fixtures drain into and an auxiallary stack at the other end of the house that the kitchen sink drains into, it'll only be the near horizontal drain line that comes off the kitchen sink stack that will gradually clog up on you.

And, if your washer just happens to drain into the same stack as the kitchen sink, you can have exactly the situation you're describing where you can flush the toilet, drain the tub and run water in the bathroom sink all at the same time and not have a problem, but water backs up in the stand pipe when the washer spins.