Toilet Flushing Problem

[bbraden01]

Hi, I moved into a place about 9 months ago. From the beginning the toilet has flushed "oddly" with little consistency except that it normally gets the job done. However, after a flush it burps and gurgles pretty vigorously. Over the summer I checked the vent in the room to make sure it wasn't clogged and causing a vaccum...I used a large snake and found nothing therefore making no improvements. Now, the toilet doesn't seem to want to flush at all. I cannot even flush liquids as the bowl fills, quickly as usual, but then drains slowly...so add any non-liquid material and it takes two or three flushes to at least minimize the content in the toilet.

This morning I tried dumping buckets of water down the toilet. I was dumping about 2 gallons at a time in a 1.5 gpf toilet. The water would go in, but not out. The only thing that would get the water to go out was repeated plunging or adding more water to the point of almost overflowing and then it still only slowly went down. I was hoping for maybe an obstruction in the line that I could flush away with water but that seems to have not worked. I dumped about 10 gallons of straight up water down the toilet.

Suggestions? I have a septic system and they are coming to pump it Monday as I'm hoping that might alleviate the problem but the shower that is 3 feet from the toilet drains just fine still?

[HayZee518]

toilet

get a replacement wax seal. turn off the water to the toilet. flush the toilet. mop up any water left in the tank. now remove the two flange nuts and remove the toilet. look into the siphon in the base of the toilet for something stuck there. if nothing, look into the flange fitting on the floor for an obstruction. your shower empties into a side fitting on the toilet flange elbow.

[bbraden01]

I'll give that a try. It's back to flushing liquids "alright" but it's still not as good of a flush as I would hope. It was lightly raining the day it got really bad, but it did not rain that much. In the summer large volumes of rain have slowed it up but never light volumes.

[HayZee518]

toilet

since you stated that you have a septic system, I doubt the level in the tank has risen to the point that you'd need pumping. you still need a stack vent for venting sewer gases. in the septic tank there is one line in and at least one, perhaps two or three going out "above" the level of any sludge in the tank. these outlets go to a leach field distribution boxes and out to your "field" - solids stay in the tank to be broken down by anerobic bacterial action into liquids. those that can't be broken down, toilet paper,cigarette butts, dirt stay in the tank. I would look for roots in the effluent discharge line. those joints in pipe aren't cemented in place, just placed there. that's another thing. if your system sank, the the joints aren't made up, may have even got disconnected from the distribution boxes, causing you drainage problems.

[pushkins]

Before you start worrying about the tank, why don't you locate the D box and have a look inside it, if the field isn't working the box will be full. Sound to me like you have a blockage somewhere downstream (but near) the toilet line. If the system is blocked enough for the toilet not to flush then usually the bath tub will show signs of effluent coming into it (unless the blockage is between the tub and toilet.
Have you tried pouring water carefully directly down the toilet flange (with the toilet removed) ?

[bbraden01]

I'm starting to wonder if there is a blockage issue between the toilet and where the shower joins the line. There is only 3 ft or so before I would suspect the shower to come into the line. Unfortunately, I have heard stories that some of the plumbing pipes in the house go "nowhere" if you no what I mean so maybe the shower never does. Problem is, I don't know which ones truly go "nowhere" and which ones actual go to the septic besides the toilet. There is only a very narrow gap between the house and the ground, no true crawl space and there is no access without tearing apart some of the siding, but I only rent here so I don't think that would make the landlord happy. I'll try pouring water down the flange when I get a new wax ring for the toilet. This house has so many lack of maintenance issues that its frustrating but the owner seems to have all but abandoned caring about it and is just waiting for the market to come back to sell it. If there are roots or anything in the line I suspect that we'll have to live with them as I doubt the owner will pay to have the problem fixed unless something actually breaks or becomes unusable...The house was built in the 50's and the "foundation" is railroad ties that I suspect are nearing the end of their life. I am also wondering if maybe the house has shifted and the drop in the pipe isn't has much as it should be anymore? It's obvious that the one corner of the house has settled so I wonder what else may have.

[HayZee518]

toilet, shower

if when the house was built, they followed any type of plumbing code, the drain line for the tub/shower should have a 1/4 inch pitch per foot away from the tub. being put up in the 50's would indicate either a cast iron drain or an earthen "tile" for a drain line. the tub/shower/lavatory sink drain lines went into the main line either to a sanitary side inlet to the toilet drain or a t-y configuration in the drain line. usually the cast iron drain is in an inside wall with an elbow connecting the toilet to the drain/vent stack. the elbow could also have the side inlet fitting in it. joints of cast iron are oakum rope and a lead caulked joint. the oakum when wet, expands to form a seal, the lead merely fixes the joint.
take heed in what pushkins says and see if the D box is full or the inlet to the leach field had somehow dropped or got disconnected from the tank and or D box.
In any case, your landlord has the final say. but you have issues too! you're paying him rent to have a usable dwelling with free flowing appliances,without stink(s) - you might even have legal issues with him. your call.

[bbraden01]

Fortunately, the house has been updated since the 50's so at least some of the plumbing is modern PVC, but I don't know what's under the house. The house is a cottage so all the drain lines for the toilet and tub are below the house in an uninsulated, unheated space, which I fear but I have not heard about problems here in the past with freezing as I'm guessing enough heat escapes through the uninsulated floor to keep the space above freezing? As far as legal issues go, the house belongs to my girlfriends father. She's been living here for 5 or so years now but I only started living here about 9 months ago. Our rent is super cheap because of this, which is why I fixed the heater as you may recall from the Monitor forum, and basically the rent is only about 1/2 of what we would normally be paying for where we live. About the D-box though, how would I go about finding it? I don't know septic systems well as I haven't lived with one since I was 10. I included a rough schematic of where known objects sit in relation to the house. I know for sure that the top three items are septic. The bottom round item I'm not sure what it is, I just know it's a large object and there's water in the bottom of it. I suspect it's part of the septic but if it's not my only other guess would be drinking water but it looks like it could easily be contaminated if it was?

[HayZee518]

toilet

without an architects drawing for the septic system you're pretty much lost. as far as lawsuits, please accept my apology, I didn't know the circumstances.
if you can find the access cover you may be able to remove it and just peek inside in which direction the outlet goes. distance out from tank, anybody's guess. hold your nose!
it would be buried under about six inches of sod. don't go into the tank you could kill yourself.

[bbraden01]

No worries HayZee, there was no offense taken. You've offered your weight in gold already helping me on this website! It's somewhat of a sticky situation because we don't have an official lease agreement we just pay nominal rent and take care of small stuff. Luckily he's covering the cost of the pumping, I'm just not sold that it is going to actually fix the problem outside of maybe making things better until the tank fills back up again with liquid. I am making sure that I am around for the pumping because I want to get the pumpers opinion on the condition of the tank and if it was actually ready for pumping or if it was a bit premature, but it's been 4 years since the last pumping and from what I could find it is recommended to pump every 3-5 years. We are on a lake so our water table is high here and I wonder if that could be causing a problem with the functionality of our leech field. I wish I knew more about what was going on down below but I know that's not going to happen without tools that I don't have at my disposal at the moment. Thanks for all the suggestions though!

[pushkins]

The "D" box will be after the tank, the D box does what it's name implies d = distribution) it distributes the liquid from the tank to the separate leach lines. If the field is/has failed then this box will be full of liquid (pre pumping). Tanks generally are about 10' out from the house, the D box can be a little harder to find but your pumping company should be able to locate it very quickly once they are onsite.
Waste pipe seldom freeze mainly as they don't hold liquid, even if they are level they hold little and certainly not enough to freeze over and block. Again the tub works the toilet doesn't, they all lead to the same place, a shower will input much more water to the system than a toilet (1.2...1.6 or even 6 gal flush toilets).
What happens if you put the plug in the tub and fill it with 20 gallons of water, how does it drain fast...slow...not at all ?

[bbraden01]

When the tub drains from being "full" it drains fast and quickly, but it may not be connected to the septic from what I've heard but I have no way of knowing for sure unfortunately.

[HayZee518]

drain lines

a septic system is only for human waste disposal. it was not meant for effluent from a dishwasher, shower, lavatory sink. these make use of a french drain which is nothing more than a hole filled with different grades of stone. the effluent is mostly water with perhaps a biodegradable detergent. water freely leaches out from this hole. you did mention a high water table. if your drain is lower than the highest point on the lake then your french drain will be water logged and drainage will be a problem until that level drops. but the earth may already be over soaked with water. a friend of mine has a camp on a river with a cistern he uses for bathing water, NOT drinking water. it is a galvanized corrugated pipe going down about eight feet. with the cover off, whatever level the river is at, the level in the cistern is the same.
no coliform bacteria testing was ever done so I have no idea of the quality of the water.
you may need to rent a seperate toilet from a rental place to do your thing until you can find out your problem.

[bbraden01]

Well luckily the only thing in the house that has had any sort of issues has been the toilet so far. It's back to flushing normally again now so I"m wondering if with the moderate rain and the somewhat frozen soil we have now if that was enough to flow it down for a day or two. Either that or something got backed up in the line and it finally cleared out. This house has created more questions than answers for me, luckily most of the questions don't have day to day consequences! Thanks for all the replies on here, I'm hoping to find the D-box and check it out but if not at least the septic will be fresh and clean come next week which it was due for anyways and if the problem comes back I'll know what to expect...