Copper piping soldering problems...any tips?

[pntballfreak]

I'm trying to extend an outdoor water faucet about 4" higher. It's 3/4 copper piping. I'm having trouble trying to solder the coupling to the existing water pipe. I can't get a good seal because the solder keeps dripping downward. Is there a way to keep the solder from dripping and getting a good seal?

[mrcaptainbob]

Scrub the fitting and the pipe end to be soldered 'till they're a bright, clean copper. Apply the solder flux paste to both and make sure it's smeared all over on the freshly cleaned parts. Slip them together. Apply your heat all around the joint and then concentrate it on one side while applying the solder to the opposite side. That solder will *want* to flow to the heat source, even if it's straight up. Hope this helps.

[HayZee518]

The solder tends to be sucked up into the joint due to cappillary action. It will "seek" the source of heat so concentrate the flame on the middle of the fitting. Clean both the tubing and fitting so its nice and bright copper and don't forget the "end" of the fitting. Apply flux - paste type - to both the fitting and tubing. I don't put any credance in those liquid fluxes. NO-CORRODE works best

[LazyPup]

When soldering copper enough cannot be said about properly cleaning the tube and fittings. DO NOT make the mistake of believing tubing or fittings are new and shiny, therefore they don't need cleaning. When exposed to free air copper oxidizes very rapidly, often within hours. The preferred method of cleaning is to use open sandscreen type emery paper or a stainless steel wire brush. When using emery paper cut it into pieces about 2x6 inches, loop it over the end of the tube and rapidly pull the ends in the manner of a shoe shine rag. You can get emery in 2in wide precut rolls of 5 or 50 feet at HD,LOWES, plumbing supply houses and most hardwares. Ask for a "plumbers roll". Wipe the debris off with a clean, dry, lint free cloth. absolutely DO NOT TOUCH the cleaned area with your finger, the oils in your finger will contaminate the copper making soldering difficult. Flux should be applied with a flux brush, As was prevolsy mentioned, liquid fluxes do not work near as well as paste flux, and while discussing paste flux i would recommend the petroleum based fluxes rather than Water base. Water base requires a bit of practice to effectively use it. Now set the fitting on the tube and rotate it a couple times to insure the flux is evenly spread and make your final alignment for where you desire it to be when finished. The type of torch you use will also have a tremdous effect on how well you can solder. While the common pencil flame type propane torches will make descent joints in the hands of an experienced plumber, they usually require an exceedingly long time to heat the joint sufficiently, often annealing the copper and making soldering difficult if not impossible. The preferred torch for light diameter copper tubing up to 1 1/2 inches is a turbo torch, simply a torch that has a spiral premix chamber ahead of the tip to insure a better fuel/air mixture. I personaly prefer the pistol grip type instant on torches with a push button triggering gas valve and built in igniter. They are a lot less hassle and have the advantage of turning the flame off instantly when you need to sit it aside, a prime safety consideration on the jobsite. I personally prefer the multi fuel torches that will burn either Propane or MAPP gas. Propane is the proper fuel for soldering light diameter copper tubing, but when it is necessary to solder heavier tubing, or do an occassional Silver Braze joint switching to MAPP gas will provide the additional heat required. Before you begin heating the joint take a moment to examine the location and decide what angle you want to apply the torch flame. Make sure there is no combustable materials on the other end of the flame (you certainly dont want to set the house on fire while saving a few dollars on a DIY project) In some tight locations you may have to use a piece of sheet metal to prevent the flame from contacting wood framing. An old piece of round sheet metal duct flattened out works very well. Also, it is good practice to have a small spray bottle of water handy and if you happen to get some wood hot, wet it down immediate, so it will not smolder and later catch fire. In some cases wetting the wood before soldering will be sufficient. Apply the heat to the fitting evenly to preheat it, then concentrate the heat on the fitting, on the opposit side of where you intend to apply the solder. pull out about 6 inches of solder on the roll and form the end into a slight J hook. Periodically test the heat by touching the tip of the solder to the joint. If the heat is correct the solder will flow instantly. Remove the heat and continue feeding the solder. The solder should suck right into the joint. Use the bent J hook end of the solder to reach around the joint applying the solder evenly. Watch the joint closely on the opposite side of where you are applying the solder, you should see the solder flow around, filling the joint and dripping out slightly. Now use your flux brush to wipe the joint with flux, allow to cool a few moments, then wipe with a wet rag. If your fitting was properly cleaned and the heat was correct, the result should be a clean shiny film of solder on the tubing. If the solder appears dull gray or has lumps and bubbles the heat was not sufficient. There are two additional considerations when soldering water lines for the potable water supply. 1.The code demands that you MUST USE lead free solder. 2. It is nearly impossible to solder a line that has standing water in it. In the case of the horzontal line as described in the original post, you may have to backtrack a few feet, remove a hanger and lightly spring the line downward to drain any residual water in the pipe...If you are not experienced at soldering you may want to make a few practice joints on some scrap before hand. To get a good visual indication of how solder should flow take a short length of scrap copper and clean it real well for 3 to 4 inches. Now put the opposite end in a vise or other suitable means of holding, brush some flux slong the top of the tube for about 2 inches back from the end. Heat the end of the pipe, then apply solder. When the solder melts continue feeding solder on the end and draw the flame of the torch down the pipe, You should be able to draw the solder 2 to 3 inches down the pipe by just using the heat of the flame while feeding the solder on the end. This is a fun exercise that we often use when training apprentices in soldering techniques. ALSO, you must use a tubing cutter to cut copper tubing, Tubin cutters have the advantage that they roll around the pipe insuring the outer diameter remains true. Cutting tubing with a hachsaw or other means will distort the diameter and make soldering almost impossible. R.Rinard -journeyman plumber

[pntballfreak]

Thank you everyone for their helpful hints/tips. I was able to finish the job yesterday. I never knew how important it was to fully clean the copper piping. There are no leaks and it actually looks very professional... Again, thank you.

[mrcaptainbob]

Good for you! And thanks for the feed back!

[bjkeith75]

I too am having problems with soldering and continue to do so. I tried following LazyPup's suggestion of putting flux on top of a pipe and heating but I just can't seem to get it to work.

I cleaned 4 inches of the pipe.

Starting 2 inches from the end, I applied flux.

I heated the end of the pipe using a Bernzomatic torch with MAPP gas.

The flux appears to be melting off the pipe before the solder will melt. Once the solder starts to melt, it doesn't flow anywhere.

Thanks in advance for any help.

[HayZee518]

ok - Clean the pipe back about 1 1/2 inches from the end with emery cloth. Clean the inside of the fitting with a round wire brush or emery cloth. Clean the end of the fitting with emery. Apply a paste flux all around the pipe where the fitting is going. Apply flux inside of the fitting, the part you just cleaned. Shove the fitting onto the pipe and rotate. Start your torch. Apply the flame ON THE FITTING - NOT THE PIPE. When the flux bubbles, try applying the solder to the joint. if it melts it will get sucked up into the joint via cappilary action Keep applying solder all around the joint - don't remove the heat! When the solder drips once, remove the heat. don't move the fitting until it cools and the solder solidifies. IF YOU GOT ANY WATER IN THE PIPE, IT WILL MAKE SOLDERING IMPOSSIBLE!

[LazyPup]

The Mapp gas may be part of your problem. The preferred fuel for soldering light copper (Up to 1 inch) is Propane.

Mapp burns very hot by comparison to propane and it often anneals the tubing making soldering difficult.

Mapp is generally only used on light copper when working outdoors in wind.

To do the test, clean the copper about four to fives inches,

apply flux along the entire cleaned area.

Begin heating the pipe about 1 to 2 inches from the end and apply the solder on the end.

DO NOT FEED SOLDER INTO THE TORCH FLAME, IT WILL ONLY MELT AND FALL OFF

When the solder begins to flow, continue feeding solder and draw the heat along the pipe away from the end, the solder will follow the heat.