Toilet Problem

[KevPearson]

Hi all, I have just found this informative site and this is my first post.

When we flush our toilet there doesn't seem to be any suction power, instead the bowl fills to the top of the toilet before slowly draining away over the course of a few hours. I tried plunging and that didn't work so last week I called out a plmuber who snaked it and it began working fine again. However, ten days later, the same problem began happening. So i called the plumber again who came out, snaked it, and said teh problem might be calcium build up which would mean I would need a new toilet. The toilet flushed fine for a day before the same problem started again.

Does anyone have any idea what the problem might be as the plumber didn't really give me any clues other than get a new toilet.

One thing that does spring to mind was two months ago a friend installed a new faucet in our kitchen and turned off various pipe valves in our basement before switching off the main water valve. Could he maybe have forgotton to switch one of the valves back on? The water runs fine everywhere else in the house.

Thanks for all your help.

[HayZee518]

Try having your plumber friend snake the stack. This is the large line that runs up to the roof. It's the air vent for the toilet drain. With no air to aid the drain the water'll take its sweet time to drain out.

[LazyPup]

First off, there are no valves on the drain, waste and vent (DWV) piping so we can rule out the possibility that someone forgot to open a valve.

Questions?
1. Have you checked the water level in the tank?

If the water level is below the water level index line in the tank there may not be a sufficient amount of water being discharged to push the water in the bowl over the top of the trap to begin a proper flush. (This is especially critical on water saver toilets.) The water level can be adjusted by adjusting the set screw or float on the fill valve.

2.Have you cleaned the water inlet holes on the underside of the bowl rim?

If the small water inlet holes on the underside of the bowl rim are obstructed the water enters the bowl too slowly to push the water over the top of the trap effecting a good flush.

2.Are you by chance missing a tooth brush or small plastic bottle?

Quite often a tooth brush or small plastic bottle will get dropped into a toilet sight unseen and flushed. It then sticks in the trap and causes a buildup in a short time which explains why it would flush ok a few times before the problem returns. Often when we attempt to clear the trap with a closet auger, the auger head will clear the main portion of the clog but pass right by the object causing the clog. Small partially empty plastic bottles can be the most elusive because they tend to float to the top of the trap section catching the solids while the liquid slowly passes through.

In order to check the trap you have to turn the water supply off and remove the water from the toilet. (Hopefully you can flush the water through, otherwise you have to dip the water out of the tank, then use a shop vac to remove the water in the bowl section before lifting the toilet.)

TIP: When lifting a toilet I like to open a large lawn and garden trash bag on lay it on the floor so I can set the toilet down on it and pull the bag up over the toilet to catch any water that may still be in the toilet as I carry it outside to work on it.

Turn the toilet upside down and examine the trap from the underside. You may be able to see the object. You might also try inserting a shop vac hose into the trap from the underside to see if it can pull any obstruction out.

3.When the plumber snaked the drain, did he actually remove the toilet and run a power auger snake down the soil pipe or did he simply use a hand closet auger through the toilet bowl?

If he snaked it with a hand closet auger, i would begin by checking the toilet trap as described above, then while the toilet is removed, run a powered auger equipped with a 3 or 4 inch cutter (determined by the size of the soil pipe) down the soil pipe.

Be sure to install a new wax ring before resetting the toilet.

When installing a wax ring be sure to use a putty knife to remove as much of the old wax ring as possible from both the underside of the toilet bowl and the mating floor flange. Be especially careful to check the throat of the floor flange to make sure there are no pieces of an old wax ring plastic guide flange stuck in the opening.

If these steps do not resolve the problem you will have to snake the vent stack. If you have a one story ranch type home the easiest way to snake the vent stack is from the roof down, however, if you have a multistory house, or a steep roof pitch you can open the cleanout at the base of the stack where it meets the main drain, and run the snake up from the bottom.

[dennisw]

I had a similar problem with slow drainage. When the plumber came out he eventually removed the toilet. The drain was almost completely clogged with roots. After cutting them out, the toilet worked fine. I have since been using root killer that is sold at Home Depot. The instructions suggest using it twice a year, in the Spring and early Fall.
I asked the plumber about the source of the roots, and he said that it could be nearby trees or bushes, or there could have been roots in the soil under the slab when the house was built. In any case, the root killer seems to be doing the job of keeping the drain working.

[watint]

I also have the similar problem after I bought the house for 3 months. When I flush the toilet, the water drain out very slow which it just happened for the last 2 weeks. I did use plunger but it didn't work. Also I did check the water level in the toilet tank and it looked OK. What I'm thinking in the time being is to ask someone to pump out the water from the septic tank. But i'm not sure whether it will help, or not. After I read this thread, I found that the ventilation is another factor that it can cause this problem. The fact is how I can find the vent stack. My house is 2 multi family house and I live on the first floor. Should I hire the plumber to do this job?
Thank you for any recommendations.

[LazyPup]

Watint,, Lets take your questions one at a time. First- How to locate your main vent. You stae in your post that you live in a two story multifamily dwelling then it is very likely both floors share a common floor plan, with one bathroom above the other. In that case they more than likely share a common vent stack. You should be able to go outside the house and and look in the vincinity of the bathrooms and see the top end of the vent stack protruding through the roof.

in your post you state that the toilet is sluggish but there is no mention of any problems with other drains, nor is there any mention of any problem with drains in the apartment below you, so we can rule out pumping the septic tank.

If you drainage problem is confined to just the toilet and the other drains in the bathroom seem to be working ok, then the problem must be either in the toilet itself, or the waste arm connecting the toilet to the stack.

You said you checked the water level in the tank and it appeared okay. By that i presume you mean the water level is up to the water level index line printed in the tank. If not, adjust the fill valve to insure the water level is up to the line.

With the lid off the tank, flush the toilet and observe the action of the flapper on the flush valve. Does it lift quickly and the water begin to discharge quickly, or is it partially lifting and the water is sluggishly leaving the tank? If the flapper is not lifting quickly adjust the chair or strap connecting the flapper to the flush handle. (When the flush handle is in the at rest position there should be about a half inch of slack in the chain. Any additional slack will result in a sluggish opening of the flush valve.)

If the flapper is lifting quickly but the water still appears to be sluggish check the water discharge ports ( a ring of small holes under the rim of the bowl)

If the water level in the bowl rises rapidly, then is slow to discharge something is obstructing the toilet or the waste arm (Toilet to stack line) or there could be an obstruction in the main vent. Most likely the obstruction is in the toilet trap.

Toilet traps can be snaked with a closet auger but they are not always effective, especially if the obstruction is something small like a toothbrush or plastic bottle. (Small plastic bottles can be very elusive as they contain air and will float on the water inside the trap. As the water level rises they tend to float upward and block the trap, but they are small enough that a closet auger will often go right past them unnoticed.)

If you cannot correct the problem with a closet auger you will have to lift the toilet and visually examine the toilet trap from the underside. You might try clearing the trap by inserting a small dismeter shop vac hose from both the top and the underside to pull out any foreign object in the trap. If that doesnt reveal any foreign object, you might try running a closet auger through the trap till the tip of the snake protrudes out the bottom of the trap, then attach a rag on the closet auger tip and try pulling it through the trap, If it comes through okay and no foreign object you will then have to concentrate on the waste arm.

Visually check the opening on the closet flange. Make sure there are no bits of an old wax ring plastic guide,or other foreign object stuck in the flange opening.

Next, snake out the waste arm with a powered auger equiped with a 3 or 4 inch cutter. (Size cutter to match the pipe size.)

Remove all the old wax from the closet flange, install a new wax ring and reset the toilet. Now try flushing to see if the problem is corrected.

If the toilet is still sluggish you will have to snake the main vent. While a main vent can be snaked from the top down, usually it is very difficult on a multi-story structure. The preferred method is to locate the base of the vent stack where it attaches to the building drain. About a foot above the junction there should be a cleanout cap. Open that cap and run the snake up from the bottom. (If you have old cast iron soil pipes the cleanout is probably corroded in place and will not unscrew. In that case, the cap can be broken out then install a new cap when your finished cleaning the line. If it is necessary to break out the old cap care must be taken to insure no pieces of the cap fall into the line which would cause another plug in the line.)