move water tap?

[Linus Sixpack]

I have just removed a deck that had a water line running under it. Financial concerns will keep another deck from going in, at least till next year. In the mean time I'd like to move the water faucet from the end of the unsupported pipe closer to the house (remove the first elbow).

This is not a highly used faucet and I thought it would be a great project to learn to solder copper pipe.

Can I simply heat the faucet and first elbow to remove them??? How realistic is it to simply reuse the faucet?


ls

If you aren't good to yourself, who will be?

[LazyPup]

There should be no problem with moving the faucett in the manner you suggest however there are a couple considerations before you start.

You stated that the line in question is on a deck so I assume you are in a climatic region where freezing is not an issue.

You will first have to locate a shutoff for the line. If the line is originating inside the house there should be a shutoff within three feet or so inside the structure.

Once you have located a zone valve to shut the line off, you will then have to find a way to drain all the existing water out of the pipe as it is nearly impossible to solder or un-solder a copper line that has water in it. Hopefully the shutoff will be a stop & waste valve, (Look for a small threaded cap on the underside of the valve body. The cap should be just slightly larger that a common pencil eraser.)

If you have the waste cap on the valve, begin by shutting the valve off, then open the faucett on the far end to drain as much water as you can out of the line. Leave that faucett open, then place a container under the zone valve and remove the little drain cap. Once the faucett is open and the drain cap removed the water in the line is free to flow out by gravity pressure. It may go out the faucett or it may drain out the waste cap depending on the layout of the pipe and which end is the lowest. (By having both the faucett and the waste cap open one end will provide a vent to allow air into the pipe as the water drains out the other end. That is an important step as the water will remain in the pipe unless air can get in.)

If the elbow that you plan to disconnect is on a horizontal run of the pipe you should have no problem. If it is on a horizontal to vertical transition there may be a problem with water standing in the line.

If there is water standing in the line, you may have to cut the line with a tubing cutter then loosen a hangar or two and carefully spring the line end down slightly to drain the remaining water out of the pipe.

If you feel there is a good chance that all the water has drained out of the pipe you might begin by attempting to unsolder the elbow as you suggest.

To un-solder the joint apply heat directly to the elbow and watch the end of the elbow where the pipe enters. You should see the solder begin to melt. When you see evidence that the solder is hot enogh to melt, tap the elbow away from the pipe with a light hammer or pair of pliers. Do not tap hard enough to distort the pipe, just enough so that the elbow will slide off when the solder is melted.

Once you have the elbow off, wrap a dry rag around the pipe 8 or 10 inches back from the end and reheat the remaining solder on the end of the pipe. As soon as the solder is hot, carefully grip the rag with your free hand and quickly slide it off the end of the pipe. That should remove all the excesss solder from the pipe, leaving the end of the pipe with a smooth, very thin layer of solder as if the pipe were plated.

There is an extremely close tollerence between the inside diameter of copper fittings and the outside diameter of copper pipe so it is important to remove as much of the excess as possible otherwise the fitting will not go back on the pipe.

Removing the excess solder from the inside of a fitting is often a difficult task for even an experienced plumber and when you consider the nominal cost of a new elbow it simply doesnt merit the time. Just plan to install a new elbow.

If the faucett is threaded onto the pipe you can just unscrew the faucett and set it aside. However, if the faucett is soldered to the pipe, rather than be confronted with the bother of cleaning the solder from the faucett, or risk damaging the internal washers of the faucett by heat, it may be easier to leave the faucett to pipe joint intact and cut the pipe back a foot or so, then make a copper tube to copper tube joint with a coupling at the desired location. When making that joint you may want to wrap the faucett with a wet rag to absorb heat and protect the internal parts.

When soldering copper pipe, the key to success is clean the copper. I cannot emphasize that enough. When cleaning the exterior of a pipe the easiest method is to use a strip of emery cloth about 2 inches wide and 6 or 8 inches long. Wrap the emery cloth around the pipe and grip one end in each hand and work it back and forth like a shoe shine rag. Make sure you get the surface clean all the way around the pipe and about 1 1/2 to 2 inches back from the end of the pipe. Wipe the dust off the pipe with a clean , dry rag being careful not to touch the cleaned surface with your fingers as the oils in your skin can contaminate the surface making soldering difficult.

They make inexpensive Outside diameter tube cleaning wire brushes that are very hand, and relatively inexpensive, but i wouldnt necessarily recommend an additional $4 or $5 tool for just one joint in your project. If you were planning to make numerous joints I would highly recommend it.

Once you have all the mating sufaces of the pipes cleaned, clean the interior walls of the fitting. You can do that by wrapping the emery into a tight roll about the diameter of a pencil but the easier method is to use an intermal wire brush that is made for cleaning copper. (The brushes are available at all hardware or home supply stores. Although they make some rather fancy ones that have both inside and outside diameter brushes built into a common handle, I find the cheap throw away type single brushes to be handier. You can get one with a simple wire handle for about $1. (The problem with the all in one type is that often you dont have enough turning radius to use the larger tool, or you end up wearing out one of the four brushes and are left not having the one you need in future.)

Do not make the mistake of thinking a piece of copper or a fitting is new, therefore it is clean enough. the surface of copper pipe and fittings will oxidize within a few hours, therefore, even a piece of new copper pipe or fitting must be cleaned with emery or a wire brush. To prove the point, take a new piece of copper pipe or a fitting and clean it as stated, you will see total difference in appearance of the cleaned copper.

Once you have all your pipes and fittings cleaned, apply flux with a flux brush. Again, do not use your fingers. I prefer to use the petroleum based flux rather than the water base. Water based fluxes work well, but they require a bit of practice and I would not recommend that for a beginner.

Now that you have the flux applied it is time to connect the pipe and fittings. I prefer to put the fitting in place, then rotate it a bit to insure the flux is evenly distributed in the joint, then rotate the fitting to its final location. It is best to have all the pipes in the fitting before applying heat.

Before you begin heating the pipe check your solder. Make sure you have "Lead Free" solder, then pull about 8 or 10 inches of solder off the roll and form the end of it into a J hook. You can now use the roll of solder as a handle and you will be able to reach the backside of the pipe with the hooked end of the solder.

Examine the point were you plan to heat the pipe. It may he close to a combustable part of the house. If so, you will need to place a piece of sheet metal between the pipe and the combustable component as a heat shield. Any piece of sheet metal will work. I often just use an old tin can that has been cut open, an old licence plate or a short piece of sheet metal from an old flue pipe.

While almost any propane torch will make solder joints, some work better than others. The common pencil type soldering torches will work, but it often will require an excessively long time to get the pipe and fitting to the proper temperature. This is especially true when working outdoors in the wind.

I prefer to use a propane turbo torch. Turbo torches have a precombustion mixing chamber that insures a better air/fuel mixture and produce a slightly hotter flame.

My personal preference is the pushbutton ignition, multiposition type of torch such as the Bernz-o-matic TS-4000. The advantage is that it lights instantly with a push of the button, will continue to burn in all positions (some of the cheaper torches require the tip to always be in a vertical postition) and they turn off instantly when you release the button, which is a safety feature on the job. They also consume a lot less fuel because they are only burning when you have the button depressed.

Many of the torches such as i described are mutli-fuel torches which will burn both Propane and MAPP gas. Propane is the preferred fuel for soldering light diameter copper up to 1 1/2 inches. MAPP gas produces a much hotter flame and there is a tendency to anneal the copper which makes soldering difficult. The advantage is that when using MAPP gas you can also silver braze with the same torch. (Brazing copper pipe is a code requirement when running the pipe under a slab.) The solution is to use the multi purpose torch and select the appropriate fuel for the task.

Now that you have all the pipe fitted up, and you have your torch ready, you can begin the actual soldering process.

Begin by applying the heat evenly to the fitting. While holding the tip of the torch flame on one side pipe, touch the tip of the solder to the junction of the pipe and fitting on the opposite side. If the pipe is hot enough the solder will instantly flow and you will see a bit of solder coming out of the joint all around the pipe.

Remove the heat and wipe the joint with your flux brush and some flux.

Now repeat the process on the other end of the fitting.

Once the soldering is complete, use a wet rag to wipe all the excess flux off the pipe. (removing the excess flux is important as the flux is an acid and will cause corrosion if left on the pipe.)

Now attach your pipe hangers and you are finished.

[Linus Sixpack]

Wow, thanks for the response.

I'll pay attention to looking for water in the line. The need to shorten the copper line is largely because I took out a backyard deck that had a shortish run of pipe underneath it. Now there is a 12' run of pipe into my backyard with no deck to support it.

I'm eager to try out what you suggest. I figure I'll try each option and if it really doesn't work just cut it back. Thanks again for the detail and thought you gave the question.

ls

If you aren't good to yourself, who will be?