Toilet Problems

[ryan111]

Hi

I have a toilet problem with 2 of my toilets. They both will fill up with water to about the top and then drain slowly down to normal level.. and not drain any solids in the toilet. Both are on seperate lines all the way to where they leave the house. The 3rd toilet has no problems.
Plunging will eventually get the toilet to run properly for afew flushes.. but then it is back to the same problem.
I used afew different chemicals, but they had no affect and I used the short Walmart snake.. but it didn't help.
Is it possible that the pipes aren't at a steep enough grade?
Any Ideas?
Thanks!

[LazyPup]

Toilets are required to discharge into a 3" or 4" line, which in turn is required to be run at a 1/8"/ft slope in the downstream direction. 1/8"/ft slope works out to a 1" drop for every 8 running feet or an average of 3" to 4" for the entire length in a typical residential run. Although it is possible, it is highly unlikely that pitch is the problem, especially when we consider the same problem is apparent on two separate lines.

On the other hand, venting may be a considerable problem, especially if both toilets are attached to separate lines. In this type of configuration, both lines would require a main vent running full diameter up through the roof.

A toilet is required to be placed on the end of a line, with all other dain or vent lines attaching downstream of the toilet.

The International Residential Code sets the limit of the run from the toilet to the vent at 12' for a 3" line and 16' for a 4" line (IRC T3105.1). (Uniform Plumbing code 3"=6ft or 4"= 10'..UPC T-10-1).

A more common cause of the symtoms you describe results from a sluggish initial discharge of water during the flushing cycle. This can be especially problamatic with low volume (1.6gal/flush) toilets.

In order to effect a proper flush a toilet requires a rapid discharge of water from the tank to the bowl to force a large slug of water up and over the trap in the bowl base. The slug of water needs to be sufficient to push the air in the line ahead, which in turn causes a negative air pressure behind the slug, thus relying upon atmospheric air pressure to continue pushing the water through the trap. Once the water passes through the trap it then begins to level off where the air in the horizontal pipe can now flow back over the water in the opposite direction to flow to insure adequate venting as the water passes through the pipe.

Normally the tank refill cycle has begun by the time the water is leveling out in the horizontal waste line, and the trap primer begins refilling the trap with water before the liquid level in the horizontal line has dropped sufficently to allow the vent air to pass over the water, therefore you do not get sewer gasses into the structure.

If the discharge from the tank is tooo slow, there is not a sufficient push over the top of the trap to cause a full bore slug of water, which in turn negates the effect of atmospheric air pushing down on the water in the bowl sufficiently to effect a good flush. The water in the bowl simply rises to near the top of the bowl,then slowly seeps over the trap weir until the level in the bowl is equal to the level of the trap weir.

For this reason, properly adjusting the tank components in a low volume flush toilet is critical. First, the water level in the tank MUST BE equal to the manufacturers indexed water level as marked inside the tank. Even a 1/2" below that line can have a dramatic effect on the toilets ability to flush correctly.

The chain or strap from the flush valve flapper must be adjusted so that their is just a slight slack at the rest position to insure the flapper can seat fully. The handle arm should not move any more than 1/2" to 3/4" before it begins lifting the flapper.

The lift chain or strap should be connected on the end of the flush handle arm to insure a rapid lift of the flapper.

You must have the correct flapper. With the advent of low volume toilets it became necessary to design flappers with differing flush rates. The low volume flappers are designed to lift faster and remain lifted longer than the conventional flappers.

Replacement flappers are now indexed on the package for the volume they are designed to use. (Fluidmaster and some of the other universal replacements have developed adjustable rate flappers that have a rigid plastic mount and the rubber flapper ball can be rotated to adjust the rate of discharge.)

You can easily check the flapper action by removing the tank lid and watching what happens during a typical flush. Allow time for the water in the bowl to return to the normal level and the tank to refill completely then manually pull up on the flapper chain or strap and hold it up during the entire flush to see if it reacts differently.

Low volume toilets are especially sensitive to any blockages of the water inlet holes which are located immediatle under the rim of the toilet bowl. They should be checked periodically to insure none of the holes are obstructed by effluent waste or lime and mineral scale from the water.

[ryan111]

The mechanics seem fine and the water level is a hair above where it is suppose to be.. I can see vents on the roof.. but I don't know anything about them.. Could they be the cuprit?
Maybe I just have cheap toilets?

Thanks for your help!

[LazyPup]

Fundamentally there is precious little difference between a cheap toilet and an high priced one. With some rare exception they all work the same.

As long as the tank is the correct tank for the bowl there should be no problem, but some people have made the mistake of replacing a broken tank with the wrong gal/hr rating.

The most likely culprit here is the flapper adjustment,

It is remotely possible it could be a vent, but based upon the symptoms you describe it is highly unlikely unless the distance from the toilet inlet to the vent is greater than those listed.