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**mrcaptainbob** · 06-25-2005, 08:20 PM

Say you don't use any water for an hour. Does it come up to 60 or click off at the 40? Say you crack the kitchen faucet, does it drop to zero before the pump kicks on again?

**Max** · 06-26-2005, 06:19 AM

I'll try those out but for now all I can say is that the pump seems to operate normally unless the hose is on. I was pressure washing the deck all this week (4 nights, about 1.5 hours each night) and I didn't notice any break in service. I'll try again today and observe what happens.

Cheers, Max

**HayZee518** · 06-27-2005, 04:18 AM

What is your recovery rate of the aquifer? Are you below a high water table? If your pump is sucking air then primes and pumps, maybe you're not getting enuf water into the well.

**LazyPup** · 06-27-2005, 07:41 AM

In order to understand the problem we must examine the rate of demand.

Under normal circumstances the greatest rate of demand is a shower which typically consumes 2.6gal/min for ten minutes or approx. 26 gal/shower. (4 people x 1 shower daily = 4 x 26 = 104gal/day)

Food preparation, when cooking from raw fruits, vegetables and meats consumes about 5 to 6 gal. meal on average. (The use of canned, frozen or ready made foodstuffs will dramatically reduce that demand) Three meals per day @ 6 gal/meal = 18gal/day.

Dishwashing, whether it is done in the sink by conventional hand methods or automatic dishwashers will consume about 8 to 10 gallon per cycle. (3 meals per day x 10gal = 30 gallon/day)

Flushing toilets requires between 1.6 and 4gal/flush and allow an average of 6 flushes per day per person. worst case-4 people x 6 flushes = 24 flushes x 4gal/flush = 96gal/day. Typically with water saver toilets that is reduced to 24 x 1.6gal/flush = 38.4gal/day.)

A family of four will typically average one load of laundry per dayand washing machines average 16gal per load.

Using the worst case scenario figures from above we can see that a family of four would typically consume 364gal/day which is spread out over a 15 to 20 hour activity period.

By constrast, the hose bibb is rated at 2.5gal/min and we typically use the hose for 30 minutes or more for car washing, irrigation, landscape washdown, your pressure washer, etc.

You stated that you had pressure washed for 1.5 hours, which would be 90 minutes x 2.5 gal = 225 gallon of water.

As you can easily see, the in a period of 1.5 hours the pressure washer is consuming 60% to 100% of a typical 24hour demand.

I would then conclude that possibly your well is more than adequate to meet the typical average demand for your home, but it not be able to meet the peak demand of excessive use of the hose.

**Max** · 06-27-2005, 11:23 AM

Thanks, LP.

I think the well can handle the rate, I checked into all that stuff a few weeks ago when we had the orange water problem. Basically our well is 400' deep and replenishes at 2.5gpm (details from the Board of Health). The problem we had a few weeks ago was running the hose for about 4 hours and I ran the well dry - then the iron came.

So now the plan is to water different areas of the lawn on a daily rotation for an hour at a time i.e. I will water area 1 on Monday, area2 on Tuesday, etc. The lawn is about 1/4 acre and we don't have a sprinkler system. I've been using the water a lot over the last week but I'm careful to only use it for 1 to 1.5 hours at a time just to make sure that we don't get a return of the iron problem we had before. What I saw this time though was different. The water cut out but then came back again. It was clear so I hadn't run the well down. Plus, the water had only been on for an hour so if the well had been run down then it must be almost empty. I don't have any idea how to tell what the current water level in the well is, I just assume that it fills up at 2.5gpm all the time? Anyway, the relay kept clicking and the pressure switch kept reporting different pressures which leads me to believe that there is a problem in that area.

[ my assumptions START ]
I believe the pressure tank is OK and doing it's job. I also think that the pump is working too. The pump is controlled by the pressure switch and I think that a faulty switch may be the reason the pressure tank was not refilling and hence the loss of water.
[ my assumptions END ]

But, that's only happened once so I can't really prove anything. I guess I could just replace the pressure switch and then I at least know it _should_be OK. However, maybe the pressure switch is fine and it's the relay that's faulty? I can figure most stuff out but this one is a little tricky to fathom (as are most intermittant problems actually).

Cheers, Max

**mrcaptainbob** · 06-27-2005, 09:22 PM

You may be on to something with replacing that switch. They're not all that expensive for the peace-of-mind 'new' product brings! Since you had a problem with your water4 system a while back, it is possible that some junk got into the switch orifice and is messing that up. Would that be a fair assessment Lazy? Or at least a possibility?

**Max** · 06-28-2005, 06:24 AM

I'll look into that MrCB, see how much they cost, etc. The setup I have is a pressure switch and a pressure guage i.e. two separate devices so even though the guage says 40psi I have no idea if the switch is reading the same value.

HayZee518, sorry, I missed your question but I think I answered it above. According to town records the well replenishes at 2.5gpm.

Cheers, Max

**Max** · 06-30-2005, 05:27 AM

New development. My wife woke me up this morning with, "there's no water". I went downstairs and the pressure tank guage needle was way down at the bottom. I waited for a short while expecting to hear the incessant clicking that I hear from time to time and sure it enough it came. Sounds to me like a faulty relay not switching on the well pump. I switched off the power, took off the relay cover, looked at it for a a few seconds, put it back in place and switched it back on again. The well pump came on and the pressure tank filled.

Inside the well pump relay box is a relay and a HUGE capacitor. I think it has to be the relay that's buggered hence the clicking. Hopefully I can find the part locally and it's not hugely expensive.

Does anyone know of any other reason that could cause the clicking sound other than a faulty relay? Could there be some other reason for it to click (open and close)?

Cheers, Max

**Max** · 06-30-2005, 05:48 AM

Some more observed behaviour.

With the kitchen faucet running I watched the pressure guage drop until it hit 40psi. At that point there was a click and then the needle drops to about 10psi over the course of a few seconds (at this point I can hear the faucet upstairs has either stopped or reduced to such a trickle that I can no longer hear it). When the pressure reaches 10psi there is another click and the pressure guage leaps quickly to 40psi and starts to rise. After 1min 44secs the pump switches off. At this point the pressure is about 56psi. During the whole test I left the kitchen faucet running. When I observed this operation before (last year) when the pressure dropped to about 40psi the well pump kicked in and the pressure started to rise immediately. There was never any sudden, large drop followed by a short delay and then a rise.

Cheers, Max

**Max** · 06-30-2005, 05:54 AM

More data.

Capacitor: 86-103 MFD 220V (this seems simple enough, it's just a large 220V capacitor).
Relay : 21 VOV 4CR-52-727
3/4 230 1/3 115
155252-103

I don't know what all the writing on the relay means but I hope that there is enough info for me to find a replacement. I would rather replace it myself than have a plumber come out and replace it for cost + $90. If that doesn't fix the problem then I would need to call in a plumber / well expert to figure out what is going on.

The problem I have now is that my sister and her husband arrived yesterday, they are staying for almost 3 weeks so water usage is about to double! The timing couldn't be worse.

**Max** · 06-30-2005, 06:18 AM

oh yeah, and our water is discoloured again.

**Max** · 06-30-2005, 06:43 AM

Just spoke with a pump guy, he said it's 50/50 between a faulty control box (easy and cheap and quick to fix) of the well pump itself (not so easy, not quick and not cheap). Fingers crossed for the control box. He is going to come out tomorrow or Saturday. I'll let you know what happens in case you are interested.

**Max** · 06-30-2005, 11:50 AM

Got even more information to flood y'all with. My wife overheard people at work talking about a problem with the exact same symptoms as ours. Their problem was fixed by replacing the control unit inside the house and was likely caused my a lightning strike. Interesting.

**mrcaptainbob** · 06-30-2005, 10:03 PM

Yeah, that lightening can be tricky. My neighbor's pump was about 3 months new, was about 150 feet from mine (Which ws a few years old), and a storm knocked theirs out, left ours be! Yes, it does sound like that relay or capacitor is shot. Replacing them would be a good idea. Sure hope you don't need a new pump! Did the relatives bring plenty of bottled water??? I think the only thing worse is to have septic problems when guests are in place!! Good luck to you on this...

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