How does this "tap" work?

[Max]

I have a tap that connects our old fridge to the water main. It lokos a little hokey but that could just be me. When I fully tighten it (clockwise rotation) the tap leaks water. When I fully loosen it (anti-clockwise) the water stops dripping but the fridge still gets water. Should it not be possible to switch off the tap so the fridge stops getting water AND the tap doesn't leak?

There will be a pic at http://www.bodoin.com/images/tap.jpg just as soon as my FTP client stops fooling around!

I want to switch off the water to this water line as we are having our firdge replaced. The delivery guys will be here within 2 hours. I need to stop the water and I don't want to turn off ALL the water. At worst I will clamp the plastic line but I would ideally like a more permanent, workable solution.

Cheers, Max

EDIT: the picture is up now. Nothing wrong with my FTP client, it was my modem playing up!

[LazyPup]

The valve you have pictured is a self peircing saddle tap.

The valve is first clamped on a copper water line, then as the handle is turned clockwise the peircing valve moves forward and peirces a hole in the copper pipe wall. The handle is then turned counter clockwise to back the needle valve out of the hole to allow water to flow through.

In theory if you were to then turn the valve clockwise again the needle valve should block the hole and stop water flow, but in reality they are notorious for leaks.

By code we are no longer permitted to install saddle taps because of the high failure rate.

Also note the electrolosis corrosion on the pipe which is resulting from dissimilar metal in direct contact.

Properly the saddle tap valve should be removed, the line cut and a Tee installed to permit installing an angle stop to control the tap.




P.S. You can also insert photos or drawings directly in your post. When you have the text window open to write your post note the "Upload an Image" bar on the right margin of the text box. Click the "Upload image bar" and another box will come up. Hit browse and locate your image and hit "open" in your image file then hit submit and you will see an upload bar as the image loads to the server. Once its loaded you will see the address for that image. Copy the complete address in the upload image window and paste it below your text and the image will apear in your post.

[Max]

Thanks for the tips, both plumbing and image posting. I think I have already posted with images in the post before but this time I couldn't because it hadn't actually been uploaded yet (modem on the fritz) I'll swap out the saddle tap as you suggest. May as well put my newly acquired sweating "skillz" to the test.

[LazyPup]

If you are going to cut the line and solder in a tee this would be a good time to go first class and install a mini water hammer arrestor as well. (Mini water hammer arrestors are now required by code in the near proximity of all fast acting valves. The solenoid valve on the fridge is a fast acting valve.)

Cut the line, install a tee vertically and stub up about 2" to 3" then install a 90El turning horizontal, a short nipple of copper pipe, a Mini-water hammer arrestor and a short stub of copper out of the hammer arrestor,

Now, rather than take the risk of overheating a valve you can install a compression mount line stop on the end of the copper stubbing out past the hammer arrestor.

A 5/8" compression fitting will fit directly over the end of the 1/2" copper pipe and you can select a valve with a compression output equal to the line size you need for the water line to the fridge, (1/4" or 3/8")

example, if you water line to the refrigerator is a 3/8" copper tubing you would select a 5/8" compression x 3/8" compression line stop. (This is the same type of line stop as would be used for a toilet water supply line.) I personally prefer the 1/4 turn line stops but that is not really important whether its a 1/4 turn or a common line stop.

[Max]

Thanks, LazyPup. I wish I could pay you somehow for your advice, it's priceless.

Cheers, Max

[LazyPup]

You just did pay me Max..On the job pay comes in the form of a check, but in my heart pay the real sense of satisfaction comes from a simple Thankyou when i can be of assistance.

Take a couple minutes and read my post at the top of the Plumbing forum titled "Thank You All" and you will understand what i mean about being paid.

[Max]

I'm thinking of perhaps tackling the job tonight or at least getting the parts I need to help visualize what needs to be done. What I don't really like is that the current saddle tap is quite close the ceiling. I can easily place a shield so that no wood or insulation will get damaged but I was thinking of doing this:
1. remove the tap and patch the hole in the pipe.
2. add the new assembly as described by you above to a location on the vertical pipe. That way I will have more room to work, it won't be such a stretch to reach and I won't be setting anything on fire. Is there any compelling reason NOT to insert the new hammer and line stop coming off the vertical pipe as opposed to where the current saddle tap is now? I understand that this will mean making two cuts in the existing pipe but that doesn't concern me as much as the new location. Using the vertical pipe will eliminate the need for the 90d elbow as well (not that I am bothered about the cost of an elbow in case you are wondering) I'm Scottish but I am not _that_ tight.

[Max]

By the way, our pipes are 1". I don't know if that makes any different except for my shopping list.

Edit: another question. The water flow from our new fridge is pretty slow. I don't know how slow but it takes a while to fill a pint glass. Is the flow in anyway related to the water pressure from the water line or is the pressure governed by the fridge itself?

[LazyPup]

Attemping to solder a patch is difficult at best and never a good idea.

A much better method would be to remove the saddle tap and you will see the peirced hole in the wall of the copper pipe. Cut the pipe right over the hole, then reconnect the pipe with a sweat coupling.

When soldering close to wood framing or other combustables I like to use an old windex atomizer bottle filled with water to mist the area to reduce the chance of fire. Keep the bottle handie in case you do see a spark smoldering you can wet it quickly.

I also like to make a simple heat shield by taking an old coffee can and cutting both ends out, then cut it down one side and open it up slightly. You can then slip the can over the pipe with the open side towards you to work, but the can will shield the heat and flame from wood framing.

Your refrigerator water system works off of the supply line pressure. When you get that tap valve off you will see that the tap valve only allows about an 1/8" opening or less for the water to flow. Once you get a valve with a full 3/8" supply line you should have plenty of pressure.

You do not necessirally need to install the water hammer arrester, but if you do, it must be installed with the stub of the hammer arrester in a vertical alignment.

The valve will work fine in either a vertical or horizontal position.

[Max]

Thanks LP. I apologose for my poor terminology but when I said patch I meant:
1. cut the pipe
2. sweat it with a coupling.

I didn't mean to make it sound like I would be patching it with duct tape. :-D

One problem I have already found is that when walking around Lowes I couldn't find any of the water supply parts I needed that would fit a 1" pipe, everything was smaller e.g. 5/8". I don't know if that is because Lowes' selection is poor or having 1" pipes is uncommon. Should I fit a 1" tee then a reducer and use 1/2" fittings instead?

Cheers, Max

[LazyPup]

1" is very uncommon for a residential structure.

You may be able to find a 1 x 1 x 1/2 copper sweat tee (that is a 1" tee with a 1/2" side tap.)

If you dont find a reducing tee use a regular tee with a 1" x 1/2" reducer.

You will then be able to stub out a short length of 1/2" copper and the 5/8compression line stop will fit on the 1/2" copper stubout.

[Max]

I checked the plumbing as much as I could just now and this is what I found:
1. all the plumbing from the pressure tank and softener is 1" pipe.
2. the 1" pipe heads over towards the heater but since it's above ducting I can't see everything. What I do see is the 1" pipe going into a reducing tee i.e. 1" - 3/4". The 3/4" pipe runs a very short distance, <2', where it is further reduced to 1/2" pipe.
3. I checked other pipes that I could see in the basement and there are no more 1" pipes visible. Most of the pipe running in the basement seems to be 3/4" with 1/2" pipes heading up into the house.

I don't know if any of this is good or bad or indifferent though.

It sounds like I can still do what I need to do but I will need an extra step to reduce the pipe diameter. That's seems to be no big deal though. I found all the other fittings I need in the store for a 1/2" pipe so once I reduce the source I will be all set.

I did some other checking on the web to learn more about compression fittings, etc. and one thing I noticed in passing is that lots of people still advocate the usage of self tapping saddle taps. No way will I consider that with the failure rate coupled with the fact that my current saddle tap has failed as well! The way I see it is you spend a little more money and spend a little longer doing the work properly and you get a job that lasts a helluva lot longer. I have to tell you though that when I couldn't find the fittings I needed I stood in the store with another saddle tap in my hand pondering about going for the quick and dirty fix but I couldn't do it. If I'm gonna do this, I'm gonna do it right.

Thanks, Max

[Max]

Lazypup, in reference to your drawing above, could I make the section of pipe between the 90deg elbow and the tee (the one attached to the water hammer arrestor) longer and therefor reduce the length of soft copper pipe? I was thinking of doing this:
1. remove the saddle tap
2. fit a tee (1" x 1" x 1/2")in its place
3. run a 6" length of 1/2 copper from the tee
4. attach a 90deg elbow to that
5. run about 4' of copper tubing (supported).

Hopefully the image below will clarify what I am saying.

Cheers, Max

[LazyPup]

You can place the water hammer arrester at any convenient point between where you make the tap and the stop valve. The lenght of the horizontal line doesnt matter.