very clogged sink drain

[changintimes]

i tried a hand controlled snake for my bathroom sink, did not work,

the clog, judging by the snake, is deep in the drain, the snake went in the drain about 3 feet,

i did not try draino because there is a small leak in the bottom of the well that i do not want to leak drano into the bottom of my sink, though i did put drano in the tub drain, foamer drano, thinking the foamer may travel up to the sink drain and unclog it, it didn't,

can anybody help me with this problem,

thanks very much,

larry

[LazyPup]

Befrore we can determine your next course of action I would need some additional information.

1. What is the approximate age of the house

2. What kind of material is used to construct your drain, waste & vent system (ABS, PVC or cast iron pipe)?

3. Is this house on slab, over a crawlspace or a basement?

4. Go outside and look up to the roof directly over the lavatory and see if you can see a vent pipe extending through the roof.

[albright]

drain clogged

you need to get further in the drain than 3 feet. use something like this http://www.acehardware.com/product/i...archId=1260768. just be patient also, you probably wont get it open on the first pass. it depends on whats cloggin it, whether its debris, grease, rice.

[changintimes]

Befrore we can determine your next course of action I would need some additional information.

1. What is the approximate age of the house

2. What kind of material is used to construct your drain, waste & vent system (ABS, PVC or cast iron pipe)?

3. Is this house on slab, over a crawlspace or a basement?

4. Go outside and look up to the roof directly over the lavatory and see if you can see a vent pipe extending through the roof.

My house is approximately 80 years old.

The color of the pipe going into the wall of my bathroom sink is silver.

We do have a basement.

[changintimes]

you need to get further in the drain than 3 feet. use something like this http://www.acehardware.com/product/i...archId=1260768. just be patient also, you probably wont get it open on the first pass. it depends on whats cloggin it, whether its debris, grease, rice.

I could not get further than about 3 feet using the manual, hand operated version of the drill tool you showed me.

Does the drill tool you showed me really work very often? I may buy one.

[LazyPup]

The post states that this is a lavatory drain so it is very unlikely that the nature of the clog is rice or cooking grease, but stranger things have happened.

The house is 80 years old so that means the house was built in the late 1920's to early 1930's. While indoor plumbing had been available in some of the major cities like New York, Boston,Chicago or Philidelphia as early as the 1850's, primarily indoor plumbing only came into common use in about 1910 to 1925.

The use of plastic pipe materials (ABS & PVC) did not come into play until after World War II therefore those houses that were plumbed before 1945 primarily use cast iron pipe for all DWV pipes 2" diameter and greater, while they commonly used galvanized iron pipe and pressure pipe fittings for the smaller runs of 1-1/4" & 1-1/2". (Threaded sanitary fittings were not yet available).

Sanitary fittings all have a slight radius curve which helps maintain a proper velocity of flow in a gravity flow drain line, and the curve also aids in directing a snake cable through the joint when rodding a line. By contrast, the pressure fittings have sharp 90deg bends and make it nearly impossible to get a snake to pass through the joint. I suspect what happened was that you were able to get the snake to make the first turn where the waste arm enters the wall but when it reached the next bend it bottomed out on the fitting.

In order to determine a method of correcting the problem we must first understand the typical layout of the piping. From the point where the pipe enters the wall it would typically go one of two ways:

1. It could run horizontal a short distance and tie into a vertical stack.
2. It could turn downward, passing through the floor into the basement, then make a 1/4bend and tie into a horizontal drain in the basement.

If the line is running horizontally then tying into a stack, typically that stack would be extended up through the roof to form a vent. (You should be able to look at the roof above that bathroom and see the top end of the vent pipe extending through the roof). Once you have rodded the short section from the trap to the vent stack, the next step is to go on the roof and run a snake down through the vent and on down to the main drain.

If this is the main vent stack there should be a cleanout at the base of the stack where it attaches to the main drain. You should be able to insert a snake through that cleanout and work upwards to clean the line. (In most cases those old cleanout caps are corroded in place and will require breaking out, then replacing with a new cap.)

If the line is dropping straight down in the wall behind the lavatory trap you should be able to access the bottom end of that riser from the basement. In this case you can cut out a section of the line and rod it, then replace the section with a short lenght of PVC or ABS pipe connected to the galvanized steel pipe by means of rubber "Fernco" couplings.

One of the things we commonly find in the old galvanized iron pipe is rust and scale on the inside of the pipes, which then flakes off and falls to a joint and builds up a hard clog that cannot be removed with a snake. If you find it necessary to cut out a section of the line I would suggest cutting out all the galvanized pipe that is immediately accessible and replacing it with PVC or ABS.

[Phelps]

Here is a tip often overlooked by even the pros: use a powerful 5hp or stronger shopvac! I have successfully cleared problem drains containing all kinds of solid metal and plastic objects from college house drains and basement floor drains by sometimes first going in with the snake to get the obstructions to move. Then I have shop vacced out the objects where I then can hear them whamming the inside of the vacuum canister. If you have a vent in the line, nearby, this could weaken the suction, obviously. But these shopvacs are so powerful I would at least try it. IF you could feasibly cap off the vent on the roof, safely, that would help obviously. But not everyone lives in single story ranch houses with 4/12 pitch roofs (or a mobile home)....unless you are one of the lucky ones.

[changintimes]

thanks everybody for all the advice,

any tips for using the snake drill? i am thinking of buying one,

[LazyPup]

There is a real good reason why the pro's don't use a large shop vac. The DWV system is open all the way to the municipal sewer main and using a shop vac can suck excessive levels of Methane into your drainage system, which in turn could be ignited by a spark from the shop vac motor and cause a fair sized explosion. While the resulting explosion might loosen your clog, it is not a technique that I would subscribe to.

In regards to the snake drill. While they can be an invaluable tool when needed I personally don't think it would be economically practical for a homeowner. Typically the hand held drill motor type drain augers are only effective on lines up to 2" and generally have a maximum effective working distance of about 20'. The larger 3" or 4" lines will still require a floor mounted drain auger. We must also keep in mind that most DWV systems today are constructed of PVC or ABS pipe which is fairly maintenance free, therefore it is very unlikely that you would need the use of a hand held drain auger more than once or twice a year on average.

There are some hand held drill motor type drain augers in the $70 to $120 range but for the most part they are of questionable quality whereas a professional grade unit will typically run $300+. In my humble opinion the homeowner would be much better served by contacting your local tool rental service and get a line on all the tools they have available. Typically you can rent a hand held unit for about $20 a day and a floor type for about $45 a day. In many cases even the pro's often rely upon renting equipment that is only occassional used rather than go to the expense of maintaining an inventory of equipment that may or may not pay for itself in a short time.

On the other hand, if you are as addicted to buying tools as I am, and if you have a spare $300 burning a hole in your pocket let me know and I will post you a list of lesser known small tools that will enhance your DIY toolbox.

[changintimes]

well the combination hand held, motor drill snake that i bought yesterday unclogged the drain! it got the hair out of the drain, about 5 feet in,

thank you all very much, what a great forum!

larry

[Phelps]

Except to me...who could have caused your house to explode.

I wonder if that has ever hapened? I sort of presumed that for the duration of doing it, and the fact you are probably drawing air from the main stack, that this would be unlikely. But who knows.

And after LazyPups response, I wondered if roofers, smoking on the job, up on the roof, walking past the soil stack vent up on the roof, or leaning over it while replacing a boot at this location, has ever triggered an explosion.

I truly am curious about this now.

I have also heard how hydrogen gas build up in a hot water line can cause an explosion if you oipen the hot water after it sat a long time, and held a match up to the faucet.