what kind of sump pump is this??

[kpster]

we are purchasing a home built in 1989 that has a non-working (broke) sump pump. the previous owners never used it (it was unplugged) as the home is up on a hill and has excellent drainage. there's absolutely no signs of water in the basement ect.

back to the pump- there's no "pit" and the pump is more like a motor on top of a stick with the stick being a smallish pipe going into the concrete floor of the basement. i've not seen a sump pump like this and have no idea how it works. we'd like to replace it with a working pump. anyone seen a sump like this before? what is it called, can i replace it? ect.... any ideas would be appreciated

i'll be back with more fix it questions as this home needs some work!

[HayZee518]

what you have is a standard old time sump pump. the barrel which you called the "stick" has a long motor shaft going to a centrifugal pump impeller in the bottom of it. the effluent or discharge hose connects to a fitting in this lower base. the pump operated off a float, looks like a float in a toilet tank but moves a rod which is switched off the motor housing. sort of like a rocking lever. Most pumps now a days are fully submersible and operate off a pressure diaphragm disk in the pump base.

[kpster]

hmm, this type of pump has no pit then? the pipe goes into the concrete floor and that's it, that's all that is visible. so what you see is some kind of motor atttached to a pipe and the pipe goes into the concrete floor.

thanks again for responding!

[LazyPup]

As you can see from my attached illustration both a pedastal type and a submersable type sump pump require a pit (sometimes called a crock).

You stated that your house is at an elevation which is higher than average terraine and you have no evidence of ground water in the basement. What you are looking at may not be a sump pump at all. You may have a "Radon mitigation blower" With the recent concerns with radon gas it is becoming a common practice to install a network of perforated PVC pipe under the slab which is then connected to a vent pipe up through the slab with a powered blower on the vent pipe. After that is laid in place the whole area is covered with a 6mil plastic membrane immediately under the slab. In this manner any radon gas that migrates up through the subsoil will enter the perforated pipes and be drawn out by the blower and discharged to atmosphere outside the structure.

[HayZee518]

good call lazypup! makes sense thanks for straightening me out - hey how come yer not on yahoo anymore?

[kpster]

what i have doesn't sound like what you're describing lazypup- i have seen radon systems before. there's no pvc pipe just a regular metal pipe going into the concrete floor. it's about 2 1/2 feet in height and at the top is a motor with a plug (it was unplugged when we saw it) my inspector plugged it in, it sparked and that was it. he said it was a sump pump of sorts and that we needed to replace it. i may call him back and see if he knows more about this type of pump-wished i would have asked more about it when we were at the house!

the radon guy was there setting up the radon test yesterday and i have a well and septic inspection going on today. all this has to be settled in order for us to close on the house and move in. i'll see if i can get some info off the unit (name, model number ect...) when i'm there today.

thanks for the help and sorry to be a pain guys!

[HayZee518]

you're not a pain! we all learn from each other. if it is a sump then why the heck did they bury the discharge head?? my dad when he had a house, bored holes in the floor to relieve hydrostatic pressure. maybe your house is similar but uses a pump discharge head under the slab to some undisclosed discharge pipe.

[kpster]

you're not a pain! we all learn from each other. if it is a sump then why the heck did they bury the discharge head?? my dad when he had a house, bored holes in the floor to relieve hydrostatic pressure. maybe your house is similar but uses a pump discharge head under the slab to some undisclosed discharge pipe.

yeah, i wondered why there was no pit either. could be as you said, there's some sort of hook up under the concrete that leads out to the yard. seems dumb to cover it up in case of future problems tho

well maybe the septic guy will have some ideas. i'll post after i meet with him and let you know.

thanks again!

[kpster]

well i finally have an answer on the sump pump. yes, it really is a sump pump and is made by marathon electric. (i crawled around it copying the name and model number) it is a torpedo-style pump. the well and septic guy said that a company in hazel park michigan makes one called the shellback torpedo sump pump and says this is the same style.

it's a 1/3 hp, has an on/off toggle-type switch along with a plug. the switch, when turned on, sparks and the lights dim in the basement so it might be salvagable by having the switch replaced? we'll have that looked into after we move into the house.

here's a blurb i found on torpedo-style sumps. it would appear that this type of sump is linked to the drain in the floor (mine is a few feet away) and then pumped out to?? the yard i assume. anyways, thought i'd share what i learned today in case it helps someone else. thanks again and i'll be baaaack later with more goofy questions.

*Sump pumps come in three different styles: pedestal, submersible and torpedo. The pedestal sump pump’s motor is out of the water and actuated by a ball cock mechanism. The submersible sump pump is located inside the sump crock. The torpedo style sump pump is most commonly used when a house was not originally built with a sump, and is in the drain tile cleanout.*

[HayZee518]

ok, then it IS a sump pump! what do you know! Now we're on a common ground that I know something about. the switch is probably a common single pole switch - toggle type. leave the thing unplugged and remove the plate the switch is probably mounted on carefully. Underneath you may find four terminals with wires on each. if there is a starting capacitor then two of the wires go to this and the other two go to the windings. the motor is probably a capacitor start with a centrifugal switch. mounted on the end bell plate is a switch with a set of contacts. the capacitor connects here. there is a nylon pawl that rides on a movable portion of the motor armature with a set of weights. these weights are called the "flyball." When the motor is at rest, a set of contacts are closed putting the capacitor in the circuit. with power applied the capacitor inserts an off-phase condition to get the motor spinning. once the motor is up to speed the centrifugal switch is supposed to open cutting out the capacitor. maybe after years, this centrifugal switch is just stuck or the flyball isn't moving on the motor shaft. this you'll have to check out. make a diagram that you understand where the wires are connected so re-assembly will be easier for you and take apart this upper part of the motor. check out the flyball and make sure it moves up and down the shaft. a little wd-40 wouldn't hurt. then look at the switch on the end bell. if the contacts are welded shut, maybe you can free them up. then use a super fine file and dress the contacts flat. if it's totally useless take the switch to a motor repair place and get a new one. make sure you get one that is an exact replacement as a retrofit won't work. once you get it back together the motor should work. Oh and check that the whole armature shaft spins by hand - there may be something jammed in the pump assembly.

[kpster]

wow! thanks for all the info!! the unit is currently plugged into the wall and the switch is in the "off" position tho it doesn't work anyway. i guess this type of sump was popular around here when people wanted to finish their basements and have a less "ugly" looking sump. this basement however, isn't finished anyway so i still don't get why they have such a sump?

i would bet that many of the normally moving parts are froze as it hasn't been "on" in many years (or so the current owners say.) i will attempt to check out the switch after we move in but i'm totally out of my level of skill here. won't hurt to have a look tho.

on another topic- the well pump guage isn't working and the tank doesn't refill at an adequate rate (so says my well and septic guy!) to supply pressure enough for a family of 5. so i'm now on a mission to learn more about these tanks! oh and the water heater is 18 years old and on its way out. i'm trying to remember why i wanted to buy this house!

thanks again, you're a wealth of info and help

[HayZee518]

those well pump gauges serve a purpose - what - I don't know but they're always getting rusted up. the tube inside is brass and the movement is steel - go figure. a replacement gauge - 1/4 npt bottom connection is cheap. the water tank maybe is a goulds - inside is a rubber bladder that is supposed to have air pressure behind it. the bladder when charged with water pressure against it provides a back pressure and eliminates the pump pulsations. if the bladder bursts then you will have no back pressure and the pump will almost run continuously. line pressure is about 45 psi. hey! you want a house! welcome to the trials and tribulations of being a homeowner. keep the forum in mind you may need it! hahaha!

[kpster]

yeah, i guess i did want this house.... hopefully we can negotiate and share the repairs with the sellers. i love a challange but geesh!

could be the "bladder" on the well pump as it runs all the time. gotta check into this.

i found a replacement pump- they actually call this a "sumpless pump" at a plumbing supply near the house. it's pricey $493 plus installation. it's a shellback torpedo sumpless pump. same as what i have (which is a copycat of shellback i'm told) i like the idea of checking for a broken switch first and go from there. might get lucky and it'll just be the switch... well, i can hope can't i?
thanks!