keep hose bibb from freezing

[dkpbxman]

I have a typical exterior frost free hose bibb. Now, I understand that frost free does not mean freeze proof and it has never frozen up before but I still worry that it might in the future.
The piping goes from the hose bibb, into the house about 2 ", turns 90*, and after about a 4' length of pipe, feeds the washer.(looking at the pipe layout backwards, so to speak)
Would it make sense to install a stop and waste valve, or something, even though the piping length that it would have to go in (between the washer and bibb) is along, and maybe 2" away from, an exterior wall and in that way, allow me to close the valve during the winter and drain the outermost section?

If so, can I install the valve with compression fittings, as I'd be afraid of burning down the house working that close to the framing with a torch.

Thanks,

[leone184]

frost free

I had those "frost-free" hose bibbs on my house also. I've learned that even if they don't freeze, they don't last very long either. So far I've replaced one, and put new quarter turn stop valves on both. The compression type fittings worked great, and I would highly recommend them. The quarter-turn valves also work great and are worth the couple extra bucks. A couple of inches into the house is probably too close, but why not install the stop in the 4' section you describe? I think that would work fine, and be a heck of a lot easier.

Hope this helps

[dkpbxman]

Thanks for replying

I'm sorry for being unclear in my post but the 4' section is the place I was thinking of putting the stop. Just wanted to run it by some people who were more knowledgeable on the subject. The 1/4 turn compression valve sounds like the way to go.

I have one of those "mini-cutters" but even that is too big to fully rotate around the pipe while cutting it (hits the wall), do you know what else I can use?

How much of the pipe did you cut out when you put in the valve?

Thanks,

[LazyPup]

"MURPHY'S LAW" is a popular adage in Western culture that most likely originated at Edwards Air Force Base in 1948. The Law broadly states that things will go wrong in any given situation, if you give them a chance. "If there's more than one way to do a job, and one of those ways will result in disaster, then somebody will do it that way." It is most often cited as "Whatever can go wrong, will go wrong" (or, alternately, "Whatever can go wrong will go wrong, and at the worst possible time," or, "Anything that can go wrong, will").

Anyone who has lived in a cold climate for any appreciable length of time knows only too well that Murphy's Law definitely applies when discussing frozen water lines. Of this you can be sure, the lines will never freeze during business hours on a weekday,,LOL.

Just today I had to thaw out frozen water lines in the basement, unfortunately it was my basement so I don't expect that service call to pay much. LOL. It seems that a limb had fallen from a tree and damaged the laundry dryer vent outlet. This then left a 4" diameter opening for the subzero winds to blow into the basement and freeze both the hot and cold water lines 4' inside the basement wall. Fortunately my lines are all copper so it didn't take long to heat the lines with my propane torch to thaw them out.

Having vented my frustrations let us now turn to dkpbxman's question.

Code prohibits installing compression fittings in a concealled location however if the location is readily accessible they are fine.

In regards to cutting the pipe. Even though the pipe is too close to the wall to permit a mini-cutter to rotate if you cut the copper near the center of the 4' run you should be able to spring the pipe out just enough to rotate the cutter. (You may need to unfasten a pipe hanger or two during the cutting operation). Once you have the pipe cut you should clean the ends with emery cloth in the same manner as you would for soldering before installing the compression valve.

In a typical residential potable water distribution system we have a main line with branches running to each point of demand. As a rule the system only has one "Main shutoff" valve near the water meter or point of enty into the structure and a "Cold Water shutoff" on the intake side of the water heater which can be used to isolate the hot water system. The problem with this configuration is that if you have problems with a line you must shut off the whole house to repair it. I prefer to install a "line stop & waste ball valve" on each branch near the point where it connects to the main line. In this manner if you have a problem with a line you can quickly isolate that line while still maintaining normal water operation to the remainder of the house.

Some might argue that installing the zone valve is expensive, but when one considers that a qualtiy Kitchen faucett set will typically cost $100 or more I think you will find the mere $7 per zone valve to be a bargain. You only need one experience with a broken water line on a weekend to quickly realize the advantage of being able to zone off a kitchen or bathroom while keeping the rest of the water system in full operation until you can get parts or schedule a plumber.

[dkpbxman]

Thanks for the help

I've always thought of it as, "S#*@ happens, but how come it always has to happen to me?"

Good advice. I'm off to "Un-hangar-ize" the line and will isolate the different branches when I get a chance.

[dkpbxman]

Follow-up

Success!

I put in a 1/4 turn ball valve with compression fittings.

Thanks to all who helped!

Now, to the bathroom exhaust fan. (Ain't owning a house fun!)

[Joseph]

Sweating copper tubing is not very difficult, and in this case the code is there to insure you don't flood your home, but it's obviously your call.





Joseph

[dkpbxman]

The act of sweating copper is easy. Doing it 2 inches away from my wall makes me very nervous. I am not experienced enough to do it confidently. If I don't have to, I won't.

[mrcaptainbob]

Solder heat....

THere's a great flame and heat shield available at HD or Lowe's for this purpose. Looks like a cotton batting bonded to heavy gage Aluminum foil. You can solder a joint a 1/2" from wood and not fear. You can play a torch directly on it and it glows, but will not flame. It's been a life saver many times for me. It's about a 10" x 12" pad. Good stuff.

[dkpbxman]

Thanks

I'll definately look into that. In keeping with "Lazypup's" Murphy's Law analogy, the pipe always splits as close as possible to something very flammable!