new sink leaking where rigid supply line connects to faucet stem

[OoerictoO]

hi all!
i installed a new half bath. i used the semi rigid supply lines to the pedestal sink because they are exposed and i don't like the look of the braided flexi-lines.

the line is connected to the shutoffs using the supplied brass sleeve and crush/compact nut (not sure what those are called).

the "top" of the supply line, where it connects to the faucet inlet is flared and then tapered back down (kinda like an acorn) such that it seats on the interior slight taper on the faucet inlet (one for cold one for hot). i used the faucet supplied brass nut over the supply line alone to connect to the faucet inlet.

the supply lines look like this:


water leaks around that top nut, out the top of the threads. i've wailed on these things with the flex head basin wrench. i can still budge them if i get just the right leverage, but they seem VERY tight. should i have lubed up the supply line first?

what am i doing wrong?

thanks

[HayZee518]

those fittings you are talking about are called compression fittings. there's an SAE straight thread in the gland and the fitting thread and a compression brass ferrule that goes over the copper line. these compression fittings for some reason are not made standard from one company to another, i.e. parker-hannefin and pfizer. the gland nuts seem to fit at first but bind up when you try to tighten them. you run the risk of cross threading them and messing up the gland and adapter.

[OoerictoO]

thanks for your reply HayZee. yes, compression fittings. mine seem to work fine and my supply lines and valves all came from the same company.

that's not where i'm leaking.

did i need a rubber cone washer or something between the metal supply tube (top part of the drawing above) and the faucet inlet?

i just used the brass nut over the supply line attached to the inlet

[HayZee518]

if your faucet uses a flare fitting from the supply tube to the faucet itself then no washer is necessary. the brass is harder than the copper supply tube and makes a watertight connection when it is tightened securely. if the top of the supply tube looks sort of flat with a bit of copper sticking out then a cone shaped rubber or hard plastic seal goes here. the gland nut is tightened finger tight then another quarter turn with a bsin wrench.

[OoerictoO]

it looked like a flare end.
i posted the picture via a link but this forum won't let me yet because i don't have enough posts.
okay, posted some fake posts below so i could insert the pic above in my original post.

anyway, i've done at least 2 full turns on that brass nut with the bsin wrench and it still drips. i'm sure i've just about crushed that flare by now.

i guess i'll just have to replace those lines and start again?

[OoerictoO]

post 4 so maybe soon i can post that picture

[OoerictoO]

post 5 so maybe soon i can post that picture

[HayZee518]

Sink Supply Tubes

See if this diagram makes sense to you and get back to me.

[OoerictoO]

i believe that would be the instance you were mentioning with the "sort of flat with a bit of copper sticking out" end. and the grey bits are the (rubber) cone washers?

in my image far above is what my supplies look like. they have what i believe you termed as a flared end (looks kinda like an acorn)

so it sounds like i just use the brass gland nut over the supply and i'm done? and you said hand tight then 1/4 turn more. but i've probably gone two full turns more and it still drips out the top of the nut where the threads are. i could try teflon tape but that's not supposed to be required, no?

[HayZee518]

those acorns are supposed to mate with the inverted flare inside the faucet supply. no lube would be necessary. you usually install those tubes "before" installing the faucet into the sink where you can really "reef" down on them. once they're in the sink its a real "b*****" to get at as you noticed/

[OoerictoO]

okay. thanks so much!

i'll try to keep tightening them. i've been using a long screwdriver in the hole for the "handle" in the basin wrench

[OoerictoO]

actually, one more question.

if you attach those lines to the sink first, how do you get them down into the opening to the shutoffs?

[LazyPup]

Even under the best of conditions those supply lines are notorious for being a pain in the backside.

I much prefer to use plain straight tubing and the factory supplied rubber cone washer and brass friction washer that comes packed with nearly all faucets.

With the cone washer method if underside of the faucet will be in a concealed location such as in a cabinet you can use ordinary 3/8" copper tubing. When the supply tubes will be exposed, such as when hanging a wall hung or pedestal sink you can get 3/8" plated supply tubes in Bright Chrome, Brushed Chrome, Gold and Bronze finish.

One of the drawbacks of using rigid metal supply tubes is that if you do not have a tubing bender it can be difficult to bend the tubing without having it collapse. While most plumbers would consider it unprofessional, they make a beaded tube that can easily be bent by hand without collapsing.

To install straight tubing you insert the end of the tubing through the faucet compression nut, then slip the brass friction washer on the tubing and finally you slide the rubber cone washer on the tubing and allow the tubing to extend past the rubber cone washer for about 1".

Now slip the end of the tubing up inside the faucet water inlet pipe until the top of the rubber cone washer is in contact with the bottom of the faucet tube. Slip the nut up over the cone washer and screw it onto the faucet in the normal fashion. As the nut is tightened the cone washer will be compressed between the nut and the base of the faucet inlet tube and you get a permanent water tight seal.

In many areas this is the method that is required on commercial plumbing installations which explains why the faucet manufacturers still pack the washers in their kits. If you have previously discarded your cone washer and brass friction washer you can purchase them at any local hardware store, but, be careful. The cone washers used for sinks and Lavatories is different from the cone washers for waterclosets (toilets) Make sure you get the correct cone washer.

See Illustration below:

[OoerictoO]

thanks!

i have a spiral/spring type tubing bender, will that do it?

i might look into using the rigid line. my question remains... how do you get the tubing, which is longer than the distance from the lip on the valve to the lip on the faucet opening into each opening after the sink is in? the run is almost straight.

i've already bruised my fingers trying to get that compression nut tight enough on my semi-rigid line.

[LazyPup]

Normally the input on the faucet is about 2" long and there are no internal obstructions. Measure the distance from the angle stop to the bottom of the faucet input and allow about another 1-1/2". Slip the nut, friction washer and cone washer on the upper end of your tube and slide it down about 2" then slip the end of the tube up inside the faucet inlet. You then slip the angle stop compression nut and ferrule on the bottom end of the tube and put the bottom end of the tube into the angle stop port. Tighten the angle stop compression nut then slide the cone washer up tight against the bottom of the faucet input, slip the nut up and tighten it in place.

The excess tubing inside the faucet input port will allow you to move the tubing up and down as needed. It also helps prevent the tubing from being pulled out of the faucet if it should be accidentally hit by a mechanical force.