Help needed! turning off water supply

[chris_in_montreal]

Hi all,

I am trying to shut the valve on the water supply line just before our water meter to shut water supply off to our house. The valve itself is in-line with the supply pipe with a regular valve handle. There is also a brass thumbscrew coming out of the side of the valve body. My problem is I just cannot get the valve handle to turn. I tried unscrewing the thumbscrew a turn but that didn't seem to help and was worried to loosed it any more in case it came all the way out!

Is anyone familiar with this type of valve and can advise what to do?

p.s. would take a picture but can't find my camera.......

[HayZee518]

at the street there is a metal cap, which if you open it you'll see a hollow pipe that goes down in the ground. your water department has a T handle wrench that goes down this pipe to a "street shut-off" valve. in your house as you describe you have two valves in-line with each other. the first one is a gate valve, your second one is called a stop and waste. that thumbscrew has a hole in it that is supposed to bleed off water in the line after it when the valve is closed. try the gate valve first. take a 14 inch channel lock plier and try to budge the valve clockwise. go slowly, the stem is made of brass and the gate is bronze. the stop and waste has a rubber washer and a brass seat and a brass stem. there must be a lot of gunk in the line that is keeping you from closing the valve. just go back and forth with the channel lock plier. you may be able to free up one or both valves. if you cannot then the water guys will have to come out and shut off your street valve - then you'll need to replace the first gate valve.

[596]

Are you talking about a valve on the street side of the meter? If so, you usually shouldn't touch that, as it belongs to the water company. But it it is a valve on the house side, then the problem is simply that if you turn it and break it, you are stuck. In my area, the water company has a 24/7 service ( free) where they will come and turn off the curb stop for you while you make necessary repairs. They will then return within 2 hours and restore service.

You should think about replaceing that valve, and if you could post a picture, we could advice on proceeding with that if you want to do it yourself.

[LazyPup]

If the shutoff valve will not turn you might try loosening the stem packing nut about 1/2 turn. (The stem packing nut is the nut at the base of the handle stem where it goes into the valve body).

You might also try using a pair of pliers to turn the valve, but that can be touchy because if it is an old valve there is a high risk of breaking the stem shaft.

If you cannot turn the valve you can contact your water supplier and they can turn the water off at the curb stop, then you could remove that valve and replace it.

years ago they did sometimes use globe valve for the main water shutoff valve but they are no longer permitted by code. If you opt to change the valve you would be required to install a "Full Bore Valve" (gate valve or ball valve.) If you change the valve I would highly recommend you install a ball valve because gate valve can also create problems occasionally.

The small round piece on the side is a "Waste port". Once the valve is turned off the waste port can be opened to drain the water out of the line on the downstream side of the valve.



While it is commonly believed by many people that the municipal water supplier is responsible for everything on the street side of the meter in reality nothing could be further from the truth.

When we apply for Plumbing Permits for a new house in most jurisdictions we are required to submit a copy of the “Site Plan” along with all the water service load calculations and proposed water supply line size as well as the total DFU (drainage fixture unit) load calculations and the proposed house sewer line diameter.

If Municipal water & sewer are available at the location the AHJ (authority having jurisdiction) will then annotate our site plan to indicate the location where the Water “Supply Curb Box” and the “Municipal Sewer Tap” will be located. If the services are not available we must annotate the site plan with the proposed location of the “Well” and “Septic tank & leach field”. The AHJ may or may not accept our proposed well and septic tank locations and in those instances when they do not accept our proposal they will annotate the site plan to indicate where those items must be located.

The property owner is then responsible for installing the “Water Supply Line” from the proposed “Curb Box” location to the structure. The water service instructions from the AHJ will also indicate where the ‘Water Meter” is to be located and they will give us a “Fitting Allowance” measurement. On the street side of the water meter fitting allowance we are required to install a “Full bore” valve and we must have a Female Iron Pipe thread either in the valve or on a section of pipe immediately after the valve. We then leave out a section of pipe equal to the “Fitting Allowance” length and begin the pipe again with a Female Iron Pipe thread.

During final connection the municipal water supplier’s installation crew will cut a saddle tap into the municipal main and run a length of pipe from the tap to the curb box valve and connect it to the property owners water supply line. They will then install the curb box riser up to finished grade and backfill the location. From this point onward the municipal water service provider will maintain the municipal water main, the tap, the pipe to the curb box valve, the curb box valve and the water meter. The property owner is responsible for all maintenance on the “Supply line” from the curb box to the structure.
(See attached illustration)


Inside the structure the main drain line is officially defined as “The House Main Drain” If the house has a basement we are required to install a “Main Cleanout” within 3’ of the point where the line passes through the basement wall and if the house is on a slab we are required to install a “Main Cleanout” approximately 3’ outside the footer wall. The line from the main cleanout is defined as the “House Sewer” and we are required to run the house sewer to a designated point near the municipal main (usually 4’ from the main). The municipal sewer employees will the cut a tap into the municipal sewer and install a saddle tap. From the saddle tap they will install a line to our house sewer line and here again, the homeowner is responsible for all maintenance on the house sewer line.

For gas piping the gas company is responsible for installation and maintenance of the gas line from the gas main to the gas meter location because that is a high-pressure line. The gas meter is both a meter and a pressure regulator.

[chris_in_montreal]

Thanks for the reply's guys. I was able to close the valve eventually after working it back and forth. Will be sure to get it replaced bearing in mind your advice