I messed up real bad. :(

[MQN82]

I did a search and didn't find an answer to my questions. So...

I was trying to install a new sconce downstairs by the main door. As I took apart the old sconce, I undid all the wiring that connected it to the house. THere were wires coming from the wall connected with wires from the old sconce. These wires were connected together with a rubber cap. I unscrewed these rubber caps and the last one sparked and snapped as the two wires were separated. After that I lost all power downstairs and partially upstairs.

None of the light switches downstairs work now and one of the electrical outlets on the 2nd floor by the stair case is out as well. Is this something I can remedy on my own or will I be calling an electrician today? Is this problem major? Thanks everyone.

[HayZee518]

do you remember the color of the wires you separated? chances are the wires you pulled apart were the neutrals. if its real old wiring then there won't be any discernable color, they'll all look alike. in this case you'll have to identify the wire coming off the switch to the light, a hot wire if there is one in this box and the neutrals. if you're really nervous with eletricity get a professional. we don't want you to get fried. you can use a neon test light or a test light that looks like a small screwdriver with a small lamp inside its barrel. you touch the light or screwdriver tip to each of the wires. a hot wire will make the lamp glow ever so slightly the neutral won't glow. the wire coming off the switch, with the switch on this wire will glow, with it off it won't.

[leodlion]

As a first rule, before working on any electrical connection, you must turn off the circuit breaker at the main switch. As an added precaution, I also check whether the point I am working is really dead. Get a circuit tester, they are not expensive and if you want to work with electricity (in the house or in the car, etc), this is a must have equipment.

You probably trip your circuit breaker thats why the lights wont work. Dont turn them on before fixing what cause it in the first place.

You need to know what you are doing. I make a sketch on what I wanted to do before starting any job. Basically, a black wire (hot) or red wire is never, never, connected directly into a white (ground) wire. I suggest you get a how-to-wire book at your local hardware store. Reading it will payoff in the long run.

I have added circuits to my house, three-way switches, etc. I followed the same basic rule as I described above. Safety first.

[MQN82]

Thanks

Thanks for all the quick replies, I managed to get my power back on but you guys brought up some really GOOD advise and points. I am as good with home repairs as a caveman with a computer. I managed to get everything working again, what I did was screw those plastic caps back onto the wires.

I guess when the caps are not screwed on, as a safety precaution the breakers shut off? What do these plastic caps do?

I'll go to home depot and get the test light screw driver thing mentioned by Hayzee ... is that the same as a circuit tester mentioned by Leodlion?

I will try to connect my sconce tonight. First thing I will do is turn off the breaker for that area. The wires coming out of the wall are white, green and I believe one was black. And I think my sconce has more wires then that so this will be interesting. I have a feeling I will be back on tonight with more questions HAHA. Thanks so much though. I really appreciate the help guys.

[leodlion]

...
I guess when the caps are not screwed on, as a safety precaution the breakers shut off? What do these plastic caps do?

I'll go to home depot and get the test light screw driver thing mentioned by Hayzee ... is that the same as a circuit tester mentioned by Leodlion?

I will try to connect my sconce tonight. First thing I will do is turn off the breaker for that area. The wires coming out of the wall are white, green and I believe one was black. And I think my sconce has more wires then that so this will be interesting. I have a feeling I will be back on tonight with more questions HAHA. Thanks so much though. I really appreciate the help guys.

The plastic cap just holds the wires together and being plastic (non-conductor) acts as insulator.

The test light screw driver is a simple way of testing if the wire is live. The circuit tester does that and more. The circuit testing can measure the voltage, amps, and resistance. And it can be use for direct current like testing batteries. In the long run, you are better off with a circuit tester. They are not expensive, maybe $30 for a good one at the hw store.

Good luck and be safe. Wear rubber shoes. Test before you touch.

[HayZee518]

Dealing with meters and test equipment, I worked for Western Mass Elecctric Company for 20 years. Their policy for circuit testing is 1) test on a known live circuit, then 2) test your problem circuit and 3) retest on a live circuit.

[KSever]

Dealing with meters and test equipment, I worked for Western Mass Elecctric Company for 20 years. Their policy for circuit testing is 1) test on a known live circuit, then 2) test your problem circuit and 3) retest on a live circuit.

Very Good advise Hayzee and I have always done this one as you stated above.

Now I have a question about this response from Leodlion, when is ever a white wire a ground wire? I have always been taught and have always seen ground as a Green wire and a White wire as a Neutral.

Basically, a black wire (hot) or red wire is never, never, connected directly into a white (ground) wire. I suggest you get a how-to-wire book at your local hardware store. Reading it will payoff in the long run.

[Speedy Petey]

Now I have a question about this response from Leodlion, when is ever a white wire a ground wire? I have always been taught and have always seen ground as a Green wire and a White wire as a Neutral.

Good catch.

Basically, anything other than white, gray, green or bare, is some form of hot wire (typically black, red or blue). Whether it is switched or constant. This is assuming small wire for general circuits. A ground to a pipe or rod may be any color.

White is typically a grounded conductor (neutral), is sometimes hot (as in a switch loop), and is NEVER a grounding conductor (ground wire).

Bare or green are ALWAYS a ground.


This is what happens when a non-trade person tries to explain something technical. The wrong information/terms is/are given and this perpetuates an incorrect situation, even though folks think it is correct.

[HayZee518]

code states that a neutral shall be a contnuous white or gray along its entire path. a grounding condutor shall be a bare, green or green with a yellow tracer along its entire length. It doesn't hafta be copper as in aluminum thw or thhn or the wrapped bare aluminum in an SEU type service entrance conductor or SER (round) service entrance conducctor.

[leodlion]

...
White is typically a grounded conductor (neutral), is sometimes hot (as in a switch loop), and is NEVER a grounding conductor (ground wire).

Bare or green are ALWAYS a ground.

This is what happens when a non-trade person tries to explain something technical. The wrong information/terms is/are given and this perpetuates an incorrect situation, even though folks think it is correct.

Yes, I use the wrong terminology in using 'ground' for white wire instead of neutral. If you read your post, you also mix the two terms.

The point I wanted to make is to never connect the black to the white wire. He had a short circuit which blew his circuit breaker and probably fried some wires. This may be due to the black to white connection.

[Speedy Petey]

Actually I did not mix terms. Grounded, and grounding, are two very different things.

Also, you sometimes do connect a black wire to a white wire. Although newer codes require re-marking of the white wire to a "hot" color.
In an older installation it is very common to see a white connected to a black.
This is done in switch loops.

[leodlion]

Actually I did not mix terms. Grounded, and grounding, are two very different things.

Also, you sometimes do connect a black wire to a white wire. Although newer codes require re-marking of the white wire to a "hot" color.
In an older installation it is very common to see a white connected to a black.
This is done in switch loops.

The response I made was made to help the guy fix his electrical circuit problem. Your response is to find erroneously little bits of exceptions to the rule... get a life man.

[Speedy Petey]

The response I made was made to help the guy fix his electrical circuit problem. Your response is to find erroneously little bits of exceptions to the rule... get a life man.

Pardon me? Who the hell are you?
How about you don't give advice you are NOT qualified to give. I was trying to correct the erroneous advice you gave so no one else would read it and make a mistake because of it.
If you look back you'll see I am not the only one questioning you either.

You stick to your trade, I'll stick to mine!

[HayZee518]

speedy & leo. this forum is not for you guys to straighten out your differences, take that up somewhere else.
The poster had a problem with his wiring. He made a boo-boo while replacing a light - let's stick to that! In answer to one of you guys statements, connecting a hot to a neutral will always trip a breaker and NOT always fry the circuit depending on the breaker rating and cycle time to trip. A white is used in switch loops for three ways and single pole switches. They should make 12 and 14/2 with two blacks for switch loops also a three wire just for switch and traveler lines. In some cases the white in a three way is used for carrying the neutral to the load or is hot depending on switch position.

[Speedy Petey]

There are no differences. I simply tried to clear up some erroneous information and was insulted for doing so.


Your logic about making different cables for switch loops and 3-ways is the logic behind the newer code to re-mark the white in such applications.