Radiant floor heating setup gurgles?

[Stayouttadabunker]

The pump is in the feed line for the slab. It will get hot. Now if it were in the return line it wouldn't get so hot because the return water temp is much lower but that would involve re-piping the system. It should be ok. It is meant to operate in adverse conditions. I can come over and help you track down where the "stats" feed to in that panel. If there is a thermostat in the room you are feeding water/glycol to, we can hitch up "that" relay to the circuit in the lowboy panel.

Thanks HayZee!
I did locate the room stat wires from upstairs down to the furnace room.
They are going directly into the old systems' electric hot water valve.
From there, it the valve's power line and stat line goes to another zone box.
(I'll post pics of it when I get home later.)
Then from that zone box goes to the 2 red circulator pumps on the old system.
It's NOT going to the Thermostat panel box I pictured a couple of posts ago.
Apparently, that box is for the old,now defunct Cantherm 520 Ground Source system using the universal relay for the compressor pump.

So, what I think I need to do is remove the red pump wires over to the blue water heaters' circulator pump and the upstairs room stat will be in business.
I will have to remove the present blue pump (black and common trip) wires over to this old room stat zone wires.
This way the room stat will control the pump as the water heaters' temp is already controlled by the panel box's stat sensor bulb.

[paul52446m]

Radiant floor heating setup gurgles?

The pump is in the feed line for the slab. It will get hot. Now if it were in the return line it wouldn't get so hot because the return water temp is much lower but that would involve re-piping the system. It should be ok. It is meant to operate in adverse conditions. I can come over and help you track down where the "stats" feed to in that panel. If there is a thermostat in the room you are feeding water/glycol to, we can hitch up "that" relay to the circuit in the lowboy panel.

He is just start to under stand that there is no way he can control the heat in the room from a floor stat.Read my message 59.
For cold weather he will need a stat in the room to control pump and the turn up water heater to heat better. Paul

[HayZee518]

The pump is in the feed line for the slab. It will get hot. Now if it were in the return line it wouldn't get so hot because the return water temp is much lower but that would involve re-piping the system. It should be ok. It is meant to operate in adverse conditions. I can come over and help you track down where the "stats" feed to in that panel. If there is a thermostat in the room you are feeding water/glycol to, we can hitch up "that" relay to the circuit in the lowboy panel.

[Stayouttadabunker]

Mark! You throwing me out with the garbage? I can wire anything you need for your heating system. When I worked at a paper mill I did all the design and hard wiring on machines they purchased from Germany and out Europe. Heheheh I was the only one that could read german blue prints.

No! Absolutely not HayZee!
I was asking questions as to why the pump doesn't shut off.
The common trip white wire goes to the pump as well as the black from the new Master switch.
Of course the Master switch is wired to the 30A red wire from the panel so the pump doesn't ever turn off -
unless I go downstairs and manually hit the Master switch.
The pump is hot like heck and I'm worried about it is all.

...side story>>> My father was a ironworker and when they wanted to install the 1st ski lift gondolas in the U.S. at the Jay Peak ski resort, my father was only who could read the German blueprints! LOL

The adjustable timer was probable for a time delay to start the compressor on your old system. You have a 240 to 24 volt tran. you also have some small relays in there. can't tell if they are 24 volt coil capable of switching 120 volt or not. it does't take a very large relay to start that pump. Paul

I will try to determine what I can use in that box when I get home tonight if needed.



See attached drawing of hot water heater panel box wiring below...>>>

[HayZee518]

Mark! You throwing me out with the garbage? I can wire anything you need for your heating system. When I worked at a paper mill I did all the design and hard wiring on machines they purchased from Germany and out Europe. Heheheh I was the only one that could read german blue prints.

[paul52446m]

I think there's about 5 thermostats upstairs! LMAO
Attached below is the Thermostat Panel box and other pictures of the stuff inside it.
Goodies such as a Universal Timer, 240VAC to 24VAC transformer, etc,etc....arghh!!!!
Gotta go try trace some of these wires and see where the heck they're coming from...
TOO MUCH JUNK! LOL
What's the adjustable Timers for?


Click on any photo to enlarge if needed...>>>

The adjustable timer was probable for a time delay to start the compressor on your old system. You have a 240 to 24 volt tran. you also have some small relays in there. can't tell if they are 24 volt coil capable of switching 120 volt or not. it does't take a very large relay to start that pump. Paul

[Stayouttadabunker]

I think there's about 5 thermostats upstairs! LMAO
Attached below is the Thermostat Panel box and other pictures of the stuff inside it.
Goodies such as a Universal Timer, 240VAC to 24VAC transformer, etc,etc....arghh!!!!
Gotta go try trace some of these wires and see where the heck they're coming from...
TOO MUCH JUNK! LOL
What's the adjustable Timers for?


Click on any photo to enlarge if needed...>>>

[paul52446m]

Radiant floor heating setup gurgles?

The "slab" stat near the water heater is just a sensor bulb taped to
the water heater heaters' inlet pipe and set at 70 degrees.
It is actually turning off the heater whenever inlet water comes back at that temperature.
As you can see from the panel box drawing - my pump will not turn off
no matter what temperature anything is!
Should I use this relay to turn it off?
That would mean I would need a 115VAC room thermostat right?
Or does the room thermostat have it's own relay built in?
I thought room thermostats use 24VAC with a transformer?
There's already one room thermostat upstairs going to the water heater room.
But it's not hooked up to this system at the moment.

If you have a stat up stairs you can use it, but you can only have one room stat tied to the system. If you have a 24 volt stat then you would need a 220volt to 24volt or 120 volt to 24 volt. what ever you have in your box.
you can change the relay with a relay with a 24volt coil to make a 120volt pump

[Stayouttadabunker]

I think you are getting it. You need to wire the water heater like you would any other water heater, to maintain temp in the heater. now depending on your heat loss, the amount of loops in the slab and how cold it gets out side, will determine what temp you will have to run the water heater.
Do away with slab stat.
New stat in room will make a relay to start the pump. Paul

The "slab" stat near the water heater is just a sensor bulb taped to
the water heater heaters' inlet pipe and set at 70 degrees.
It is actually turning off the heater whenever inlet water comes back at that temperature.
As you can see from the panel box drawing - my pump will not turn off
no matter what temperature anything is!
Should I use this relay in the water heater panel box - to turn it off?
That would mean I would need a 115VAC room thermostat right?
Or does the room thermostat have it's own relay built in?

I thought room thermostats use 24VAC with a transformer?
There's already one room thermostat upstairs going to the water heater room.
But it's not hooked up to this system at the moment.

[paul52446m]

Good questions guys! Thanks!
I'm trying to heat the slab ENOUGH to bring the room temperature up to around 70 degrees.
You cannot heat a floor to 71 degrees and NOT heat the room unless you insulate the slab from the room.
That, I think, would be very counter-productive.

At the moment, I am succeeding in heating the room to around 74 degrees - but at what cost?
I really need to turn something down. haha!
Whatever that takes and as efficiently as possible.
Maybe there's better ways to accomplish this as you're saying Paul?

What's the best way to do that because right now the circulation pump is NOT turning off although the elements turn off now and then.
Should the circulation pump run continuously like this?
It won't last long if the water is continuously circulating and never allowing the water in the tank to heat up enough to shut off?
The circulation pump is hot as heck right now and I'm fearing that it'll die. Maybe I need to move the present single sensor bulb somewhere else?

Also, like HayZee is saying - only the bottom element on the heater seems to be the workhorse as I haven't caught the top element in the act of being "ON" yet.
HayZee has the present hot water heater panel box setup.
I've attached it below.
I think I need to utilize a room temperature stat to control the circulation pump?
What do you guys think?
I would like to control the room temperature from up here - not in the basement.

I think you are getting it. You need to wire the water heater like you would any other water heater, to maintain temp in the heater. now depending on your heat loss, the amount of loops in the slab and how cold it gets out side, will determine what temp you will have to run the water heater.
Do away with slab stat.
New stat in room will make a relay to start the pump. Paul

[Stayouttadabunker]

Good questions guys! Thanks!
I'm trying to heat the slab ENOUGH to bring the room temperature up to around 70 degrees.
You cannot heat a floor to 71 degrees and NOT heat the room -
unless you insulate the slab from the room.
That, I think, would be very counter-productive.

At the moment, I am succeeding in heating the room to around 74 degrees - but at what cost?
I really need to turn something down. haha!
Whatever that takes and as efficiently as possible.
Maybe there's better ways to accomplish this as you're saying Paul?

What's the best way to do that because right now the circulation pump
is NOT turning off although the elements turn off now and then.
Should the circulation pump run continuously like this?
It won't last long if the water is continuously circulating and never allowing the water in the tank to heat up enough to shut off?
The circulation pump is hot as heck right now and I'm fearing that it'll die.
It's presently wired as on at all times at 115VAC with now way to turn off unless
I hit the "new" Master switch on the water heater panel box.
Maybe I need to move the present single sensor bulb somewhere else
but it still won't turn off the pump?

Also, like HayZee is saying - only the bottom element on the heater seems to be the workhorse
as I haven't caught the top element in the act of being "ON" yet.
HayZee has the present hot water heater panel box setup.
I've attached it below.
I think I need to utilize a room temperature stat to control the circulation pump?
What do you guys think?
I would like to control the room temperature from up here - not in the basement.

[paul52446m]

Paul there is no stat in the room! there are three stats to adjust. upper element really doesn't do anything, lower element does the water temp of the tank, the slab stat turns on and off the whole system

I was just trying to tell him how it is usually done and to ask what he is trying to do. If he is trying to heat the room from the slab, then it will never work good the way it is controlled now. The heat loss of the room is the walls windows and so on so. The heat loss changes with the temp out side so the stat has to read the air temp in the room to work right. Paul

[HayZee518]

Paul there is no stat in the room! there are three stats to adjust. upper element really doesn't do anything, lower element does the water temp of the tank, the slab stat turns on and off the whole system

[paul52446m]

This stuff called Super Iron Out works really, really good!
You should have seen the rusty/brown color of the water come out of those slab lines.
I ran the sump pump for about five 5-gallon buckets worth through the system and got the last bit of water coming through pretty darn clear!
I stirred in 1/5th of "Iron Out" per bucket and the sump pump pushed the cleaning mixture right through the slab lines like nothing.
Next, I mixed 5 buckets of RV red Glycol and then sump-pumped the mixture into the lines.
The water from the slab was even slightly pinkish in color coming out at the other end but I'm pretty sure it will all mix up in time as it all has to come back into the hot water heater tank at some point.

I may add more Glycol as suggested by Paul (Thanks! ) via the Temp/Pressure gauge inlet later on.
I may need to replace the gauge anyways, the temperature wont give any reading higher than 60 degrees even though the outlet pipe feels hotter than that.

This morning, it was 44 degrees outside, the room was 75 degrees (too warm I think), and the circulation pump stat is set at 70.
I need to tape and insulate the pump stat sensor bulb to the water tank's inlet pipe right?
( Right now, it's just hanging from the water heater's panel box.
Or would it be better to use the existing room temperature stat wires instead?

Attached below is a picture of the "Super Iron Out" stuff.
Click on picture to enlarge if desired...>>>

I still don't under stand what you are doing with you in-floor heating. I think i asked once if you was just trying to heat the floor or are you trying to heat the room by heating the floor?
If you were trying ti just heat floor to 71 degrees and not heat the room. With the stat on the return pipe of the heater set at 71 degrees and the elements set at 110, when you have a call for heat you are putting 110 degree water to the slab, and by the time the return stat get down to 71 degrees , you have over heated the slab
If you are trying to heat the room by heating the slab, then the stat in the room should be turning the pump on and off Heating the room. To have faster recovery and enough water temp to heat in cold weather they use a 3 way valve, set heater temp up to 160 or higher. when room stat turn on pump to run hot water to slap, the thermostatic 3 way valve let some return water mix
with 160 degree to maintain 140 degrees to the slab to heat the room.
Where i live this is the only way to get enough temp in the slab to heat the room. In a system like this when we are using a boiler with 180 degree temp,is where we can use a out door stat that modulates the water temp up and down. Paul

[Stayouttadabunker]

This stuff called Super Iron Out works really, really good!
You should have seen the rusty/brown color of the water come out of those slab lines.
I ran the sump pump for about five 5-gallon buckets worth through the system and got the last bit of water coming through pretty darn clear!
I stirred in 1/5th of "Iron Out" per bucket and the sump pump pushed the cleaning mixture right through the slab lines like nothing.
Next, I mixed 5 buckets of RV red Glycol and then sump-pumped the mixture into the lines.
The water from the slab was even slightly pinkish in color coming out at the other end but I'm pretty sure it will all mix up in time as it all has to come back into the hot water heater tank at some point.

I may add more Glycol as suggested by Paul (Thanks! ) via the Temp/Pressure gauge inlet later on.
I may need to replace the gauge anyways, the temperature wont give any reading higher than 60 degrees even though the outlet pipe feels hotter than that.

This morning, it was 44 degrees outside, the room was 75 degrees (too warm I think), and the circulation pump stat is set at 70.
I need to tape and insulate the pump stat sensor bulb to the water tank's inlet pipe right?
( Right now, it's just hanging from the water heater's panel box.
Or would it be better to use the existing room temperature stat wires instead?

Attached below is a picture of the "Super Iron Out" stuff.
Click on picture to enlarge if desired...>>>