Monitor 441 Heater

[HayZee518]

judging from your responses lack of fuel is not a problem. that brings us to the air flow stream or the safety devices. The flamerod is the first that comes to mind. when the unit is running its approx position is halfway between the combustion pot and the combustion ring. If when it is heating up if it ever touches the ring or the pot, the unit will shutdown and lockout. Mere shutting off the unit with the on-off button isn't enough to reset the computer. you need to unplug the unit and plug it back in. 24 volts is applied to all boards when the unit is plugged in.
The next to check is the safety chain devices. overheat klixons, high plenum klixons, airflow proving switch, low fuel cutoff in sump. These are all in series connected.

[FordMan59]

Not sure what your problem is, but I'd be concerned that it may have taken a lightning strike and fried the main circuit board. I had a neighbor have a Monitor hit by lightning years ago. He said it cost several hundred dollars to have it repaired. Since then I always unplug mine when a thunderstorm rolls through and also unplug it every spring and leave it unplugged until fall of the year when it's needed again. We've had to unplug our heater both of the last two nights in the middle of the night, because of strong thunderstorms with heavy lightning in the area. Surge protectors often don't protect equipment plugged into them very well. I had lightning ruin a printer and computer monitor several years ago after a lightning strike and both were supposed to be protected by a surge protector. I have the Monitor service manual in PDF format and will send you a copy if you'd like, it might help you find your problem. If you want a copy send me your email address in a PM and I'll get it to you asap. If you need to have the board repaired the following link will take you to a company that repairs them. http://www.heaterpcbrepair.com/

[Rockn63]

Monitor 441- strange codes, can't even turn on or off

Hello-
I have a monitor 441 kerosene heater which worked fine until 2 days ago. A storm blew through the other day and after a close lightning strike the heater screen (time, temp, etc) displays random numbers. The first number was 22, now it's at 14… for a while it seemed as though it were cycling through (it's been up to 79) and then starts over. None of the buttons do anything at all, not even the on/off (power). I've unplugged it and plugged it back in, to the same thing. There was a surge protector on the outlet, and no other electronics in my home were affected. Please, could someone advise what could be wrong?

[adnadeau]

Sounds like something in the 120VAC side of the circuit developed a resistance. Try jumpering out the air pressure switch & the 2 overheat protectors. With the pump in the circuit & the 441 calling for heat, you should see 120VAC across the ~ pins of D2. You can't measure anything to chasis ground because the circuit isn't connected to it.441_SolenoidPump.pdf

[hawkins111]

Make sure the flue pipe air side is clear on the outside of the house. If the flue is clear remove the wires from the air safety switch and jump them. Before starting the unit check the resistance of the pump coil, with the wires off the coil (565 Ohms). Put the wires back on the pump coil and try to start the heater. When the status lights come on you should be able to feel the pump thumping. A loud thumping means No Fuel. A faint thumping means the fuel is being pumped and you should have ignition. NO thumping means either the main circuit board is bad or the pump coil is bad. Tom

[noffskerome]

I have a old 441. I am having an issue with the solenoid pump. Pump quit thumping and the fire went out the other day, I metered out all the test points and everything seems fine until I got a new pump.

When I removed the old pump and metered between the contacts I got nothing (OL) so i grabbed another. Everything meters out fine until I plug in the far side of the pump. as soon as the circuit is complete I loose all voltage from the air pressure switch on down the line. If I unplug the pump the air pressure switch meters out at 115 on both sides and the first leg of the pump meters at 10dc with a pulsing ground, as soon as I plug in the far pin on the pump all voltage drops to 0 including the air pressure switch.

Have any of you experienced anything like this?

Thank you in advance for the reply

[Roninnh]

Thanks to HayZee518

You'll find a site on the web by Al Luce. Stay away from this guy - he's all hype and no action. He advertises parts for all monitors, but when you go looking for parts you're re-directed to another page on his site with no parts to be found.
A typical cycle for a monitor is an air purge, then fuel and ignition. with a flame detected the solenoid pump goes into high and so does the flame. After a delay a klixon detects the plenum heat and turns on the fan - lo or hi speed. The flame rod must sense ionized air in the burner pot and complete its circuit or the unit goes into lockout condition, then resets.

Note to HayZee518, What a great thing this forum is!!! Thank You very much! I have a 441 that would start up with the 4 lights then shut down with all lights blinking. The bottom of the burner would get slightly warm so I assumed the ignitor was ok. No blue flame seen in window. Cleared the filter and there appeared to be plenty of K-1 coming form tank. Blower sounded fine. Couldn't hear the pump so I disconnected outlet pipe from pump and ran a wire through it. That seemed to cure the problem! So air and good ignitor no fire must mean no K-1. I also appreciated the person who sent in the pictures of the overhaul of his burner. Cheers, Happy Heating, Roninnh

[Bryand]

I am also going to redo my old Monitor 41 heater blower motor bearings.

Could anybody comment on the quality of bearings that were original in these Monitor heaters. I have a pack of ABEC 3 (Chinese made) bearings. I am suspicious of these and have heard that there is lots of real crap out there stamped 608Z, not to mention these are Chinese made. Don't really want to do another rebuild of the blower because of junk bearings I picked up.

Thanks,
Charley

I have been using the abec7 and had very good luck the 3's seem a little noisey. The pins are brased in and not to bad to come out. Might want to look a little closer to make sure they are there and you just don't see them. If they are gone they will be between the burner pot and the burner chamber which will require you to take out the whole burner assembly.

[Chas123]

Info on bearings

Yeah, you'll need to move the PCB mount out of the way. I pulled the 2 connectors from the interface panel and a bunch of others and swung the whole assembly to the left when I replaced the bearings in mine. I held it up with a twisty. If you have a stubby philips, you don't even need to pull the heater off the wall. After you get the blower out, you can run it with a suicide cord; just leave the capacitor connected.

I am also going to redo my old Monitor 41 heater blower motor bearings.

Could anybody comment on the quality of bearings that were original in these Monitor heaters. I have a pack of ABEC 3 (Chinese made) bearings. I am suspicious of these and have heard that there is lots of real crap out there stamped 608Z, not to mention these are Chinese made. Don't really want to do another rebuild of the blower because of junk bearings I picked up.

Thanks,
Charley

[FordMan59]

Just wondering where these "pins" are located? I'm assuming inside the combustion chamber? I took out the burn ring and see no pins for the spring clips on the burner ring to hook to. Do they screw in from the outside of the combustion chamber? Can I purchase new pins? I assume these pins hold the burn ring right where it needs to be in relation to the flame rod.

The pins that hold the burn ring are part of the burn pot. I don't remember for sure but they may be brazed into the pot like the fuel inlet. If the pins are there you should have had to turn the flame ring several degrees to get it to release off the pins. I don't know whether you can buy the pins separate or not, if not someone might have an old pot that's no good they could remove the pins from and send them to you. I don't have an old pot so I can't help you out with this. DO NOT TRY TO REMOVE THE FUEL LINE GOING TO THE POT WHILE THE POT IS HOT OR THE CONNECTION FOR THE LINE IS LIKELY TO BREAK. Edit: The 14th picture in the following thread will be a picture of a new burn pot for a 422 and shows the 3 pins protruding to the inside of the pot. http://www.homerepairforum.com/forum...-pictures.html

[niveknrebla1]

niveknrebla1

Just wondering where these "pins" are located? I'm assuming inside the combustion chamber? I took out the burn ring and see no pins for the spring clips on the burner ring to hook to. Do they screw in from the outside of the combustion chamber? Can I purchase new pins? I assume these pins hold the burn ring right where it needs to be in relation to the flame rod.

[Chas123]

Yeah, you'll need to move the PCB mount out of the way. I pulled the 2 connectors from the interface panel and a bunch of others and swung the whole assembly to the left when I replaced the bearings in mine. I held it up with a twisty. If you have a stubby philips, you don't even need to pull the heater off the wall. After you get the blower out, you can run it with a suicide cord; just leave the capacitor connected.

Thanks for the help, the pictures are really good. I finished the job, which went pretty well. Here are some things I learned along the way. Left hand nut on the 1st fan as you start to disassemble blower assembly. You can heat the loctite holding the nut and bearings in place. To remove the entire blower assembly you can remove the front panel (don't forget the screw in the center) Then there is one screw on the right side midway down where the contol panel was. When you remove that screw the entire motheboard mounted on a sheet metal piece comes forward enough to remove the blower assembly.

Also be careful of the way the cover for the motor comes off there are 2 different sets of 3 screws each. It is just a little different the way this is assembled, make sure you understand it so you can put it back the same way. There are clips holding the bearings in place, and they are also loctited in place, which you can heat with a light, or I used a faucet puller to break them free.

One more caution after you take the motor out. You have to remove one more plate to get to the solenoid to replace the O-ring. Mine was broken, but still working, the O-ring is important and must be replaced. Be very careful of the screw and washer that hold in the solenoid, you must maintain that position because that contols airflow to the heater. My washers were loctited in place which made it very easy to maintain proper spacing.

Also don't forget the set screw on the 2nd fan blade. I bought my bearings from the folks at Hickory Home Ctr. there is a fellow there, Ron, who was really helpful, he also included a small tube of loctite 609.

Just make damn sure to make careful notes on wires and get everything back exactly the way it came apart. By the time you get everything apart you will have the right half of the heater completely apart. Oh yeah, the blower assembly comes out of the top, so the lid has to come off. Good luck, if I can do this I guess pretty much anybody can tackle it.

Best,
Charley

[adnadeau]

Yeah, you'll need to move the PCB mount out of the way. I pulled the 2 connectors from the interface panel and a bunch of others and swung the whole assembly to the left when I replaced the bearings in mine. I held it up with a twisty. If you have a stubby philips, you don't even need to pull the heater off the wall. After you get the blower out, you can run it with a suicide cord; just leave the capacitor connected.

[Chas123]

Progress

the spring is connected to the metal piece and connects to a little protrusion on the sump tank.

Hay & Ford:

Thanks for the responses, they are very helpful & much appreciated.

I started taking out the combustion blower assembly (hope I have that right). I got everything disconnected then discovered as I tried to lift it up & out through the top that it is too wide by 1/2" - 3/4". The sheet metal that the circuit board is on is in the way. The only thing I could think of was to remove the 3 screws that hold that sheet metal in place on the left hand side (from the front) & see if I could sqeak the assembly out. Thought I would check before I go any further. Thanks for the help.

I am missing something here?

Thanks,
Charley

[HayZee518]

reset spring

the spring is connected to the metal piece and connects to a little protrusion on the sump tank.