Watts NF8 Vacuum Break

[vdotmatrix]

We went left for San Diego in February and I shut off the water supply to the hose spigots OUTSIDE.

So now the weather is warmer I turned on the ball valve to open the water supply but NO water comes from either out side spigot on this line.

I have a Watts Nf8 vacuum break on each hose bib.

There is water pressurized in the line because I open the waste valve on the Ball-valve and open the valve and water shoots out....

So is there something I can do to open the vacuum break?

any ideas thanks

[vdotmatrix]

Bump bump bump

[allynirrigation]

Watts vacuum breakeer

You can remove the vacuum breakers from the hose bibb to confirm water supply, but replace them after testing they are there to protect you and the domestic water supply. It seems strange that neither hose bibb will discharge water. Any chance you have another valve some where in the system? Often each hose bibb will have its own shut off inside the wall close to the outside tap. Normally there is a access panel allowing access. When you first turned the water back on could you here water passing through the valve?

You may have to shut off the water and unscrew the valve stem packing nut to confirm water supply to hose bibb. There are numerous different styles of hose bibbs. So I cannot tell you exacting how to do this. Most valves can be disassembled to replace seat discs. If you have to dissemble I recommend you replace the seats while you have it apart. If you remove the valve stem and seat turn the water on to confirm water flow. If you still have no water check the shut off valve to ensure the stem is actually turning and not just the handle moving.

To remove the vacuum breaker there is a small screw that locks it on to the hose thread if you are lucky the plumber installing did not break off the screw head during install otherwise you will have to drill it out. The screw is suppose to be broken off to prevent home owners removing them due to spitting on valve closure.

Good Luck

[vdotmatrix]

THis HAS CONFOUNDED WATTS AND A PLUMBER THAT CAME BY 2 DAYS AGO TO do the HVAC check. One valve in the laundry room.....water pressure on the other side of the valve at the drain/waste/piss valve......the line continues to the branch to both outside faucets-there are no other valves.....dismanlte something and fish a coat hanger or something into the 1/2" copper...what a nightmare...the issue has to be within 1ft. of the valve in the laundry becauase that's where it branches.

I may have to drill out the Nf8 i have to re-think what is happening here...thanks for the response.

[allynirrigation]

No water at outside Hose bibbs

If you have access to the tee where the line splits to feed the two hose bibbs it might be a good place to cut the line and look for some thing stuck in the tee blocking flow to both hose bibbs. Next confirm water to the tee inlet. If you have water there, proceed to back feeding water through each one of the hose bibbs, hopefully this will flush out any debris, or at least confirm were the blockage is. If your hot water heater is close by you can use the drain as a water supply. Caution be careful as you will be using hot water to flush the pipe. You will need enough water hose to reach from the water heater drain to outside hose bibb, and a male to male hose adapter to attach to the hose bibb. A laundry machine hose works to attach male hose end to hose Bibb. Good luck

[HayZee518]

vacuum breaker

does code require you to have a vacuum breaker at each hose connection?
reason for the vacuum break is to stop water flow from back feeding into the supply line.
are the hoses bibbs connected to an in ground irrigation piping?
if they are just hose connections, I would remove them completely and disconnect the hoses when the valve is not in use.
are any of the valves a "hydrant" ? what I mean is the stem washer and seat are well inside the house, about a foot from the outside connection.
outside is a hose thread, gland nut and packing and the valve handle. all the opening and closing is done inside the house inside the valve.

[vdotmatrix]

Thanks for the responses. Here is the one qtr turn ball valve in the laundry which leads to the branch in the 2nd image which supplies the (2) faucets outside. Sorry I forgot to rotate the images, rushed this morning. I think I can drain the water from this branch and remove the elbow and discover what ails this ....It will be easy I hope to re-sweat this joint once I discover the problem.

I cannot image what could be in the copper section. Like I said I shut this off sometime in the wintertime when I thought temps could pose a problem or to avoid calamity when we'd go skiing or something....

Thanks for looking guys!!!

v.

[vdotmatrix]

If you have access to the tee where the line splits to feed the two hose bibbs it might be a good place to cut the line and look for some thing stuck in the tee blocking flow to both hose bibbs. YES Next confirm water to the tee inlet. If you have water there, proceed to back feeding water through each one of the hose bibbs, hopefully this will flush out any debris, or at least confirm were the blockage is. If your hot water heater is close by you can use the drain as a water supply. NO DRAIN-SINK IS RIGHT THERE Caution be careful as you will be using hot water to flush the pipe. You will need enough water hose to reach from the water heater drain to outside hose bibb, and a male to male hose adapter to attach to the hose bibb. A laundry machine hose works to attach male hose end to hose Bibb. Good luck

[vdotmatrix]

does code require you to have a vacuum breaker at each hose connection? No
reason for the vacuum break is to stop water flow from back feeding into the supply line.
Are the hoses bibbs connected to an in ground irrigation piping? No
if they are just hose connections, i would remove them completely and disconnect the hoses when the valve is not in use.
Are any of the valves a "hydrant" ? No what i mean is the stem washer and seat are well inside the house, about a foot from the outside connection.
Outside is a hose thread, gland nut and packing and the valve handle. All the opening and closing is done inside the house inside the valve. No

the valve for one faucet is just on the other side of the wall inside the laundry.

[HayZee518]

faucets

Upon looking at your pictures, why not remove the yellow ball valve in the basement and replace it with a stop and waste valve. this way when you shut down for the winter, you shut off the supply [stop n waste] and remove the little knurled nut and your lines will drain back. [open both outside faucets] your outside faucets are all ball valves [normally used to shut off flow], not throttle the outgoing flow. a globe valve is normally used - has a stem washer and seat. most outside spigots are these.
the fitting that is applied to your outside faucets, are these the vacuum breakers? those gray things?

[vdotmatrix]

Upon looking at your pictures, why not remove the yellow ball valve in the basement and replace it with a stop and waste valve. this way when you shut down for the winter, you shut off the supply [stop n waste] and remove the little knurled nut and your lines will drain back. [open both outside faucets] your outside faucets are all ball valves [normally used to shut off flow], not throttle the outgoing flow. a globe valve is normally used - has a stem washer and seat. most outside spigots are these.
the fitting that is applied to your outside faucets, are these the vacuum breakers? those gray things?

It may not be visible, but that is precisely what I installed years ago.

DEVELEOPMENT:

I removed the elbow just after this valve and rant a coat hanger up PAST the branch to both lines......NO OBSTRUCTIONS.

I removed the NF8 on the nearest faucet, attached a 90 degree SHARK BITE elbow and fireed the water on-NO WATER out of either faucet.

My next consideration is that BOTH faucets have been tampered with to render them inoperable. I have no idea how this could happen but I still plug along with no idea what is going on here.

[vdotmatrix]

FURTHER UPDATE: Upon removing the far NF8 I was able to peer into the faucet to watch the valve action. When I turn the valve the stainless "ball" inside the facuet doesn't move.

How likely could BOTH faucet valves fail in this manner?

[HayZee518]

vacuum break

I went to the watts site and found the two vacuum breaks you have.
to drain one of them you pull down on a stem that's visible when the hose is removed, the other states to pull down on the black ring to drain it.
does your plumbing code specifically state that all outside spigots and hydrants HAVE a vacuum breaker attached to it?
take a look at your neighbor's spigots and see.
NOW, you say that the quarter turn ball valves, the internal ball does not turn when you rotate the handle. my thoughts there is that there is a stem washer with the stem press fitted into the ball. evidently the stem is turning within the ball - not turning the ball itself.
I would replace both valves with a standard globe valve [sill cock]and IF you do not require the vacuum breaker, why use it?

[vdotmatrix]

NOW, you say that the quarter turn ball valves, the internal ball does not turn when you rotate the handle. my thoughts there is that there is a stem washer with the stem press fitted into the ball. evidently the stem is turning within the ball - not turning the ball itself.
I would replace both valves with a standard globe valve [sill cock]and IF you do not require the vacuum breaker, why use it?

I have removed both by driling out the screw...Why on Earth could or would BOTH of these guys fail at once?

I forsee a real pain to replace these guys unless they unscrew from the outside. They both seem to have a square wrenchable surface that I hope makes the faucets attached by threads and not soldered in somehow. The one around the side of the house looks to be screwed into the hardi-siding material.....this soulds like such a PITA...

The one with the branch that is accessible I suppose, and I haven't looked, but I would either cut frim the inside and pullit out from the outside or heat the joint on the inside and again pull it out...it has thta gummy goo sealer seen from the outside......O can pay a plumber $500 to come and replace this and I can shoot myself in the process so to speak because I would just do it myself but I am already aggravated not having seen what is actually involved here.....

I wish these would just unscrew from out side....thanks.

[HayZee518]

sillcock

I looked online and found a valve very similar to the one I have.
Arrowhead #255SW
It is a 3/4 or 1/2" copper sweat type connection with a flanged outside and two places for screws to hold it in place
Sweat soldering is pretty easy to do -
you use a fine grit emery cloth to clean the inside of the fitting, apply some flux [no corrode brand] , clean about an inch outside of the tuning, apply flux about a half inch wide and shove the tubing inside the fitting. heat the fitting until the solder flows, just a few seconds, then let cool.
push the valve and tubing into the house and measure and mark where you are gonna connect to with a pencil. go back outside, remove the tubing and valve and cut the tubing.
prepare the end as before, go back into the basement, apply flux to fitting and tubing end,push together - heat the fitting and apply solder to the joint.
when its hot enough, the solder will melt and get sucked into the fitting. when it drips once remove the solder and heat and let cool.